Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

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mtingle
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Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by mtingle » Sun Mar 19, 2017 6:12 pm

The way muting/ unmuting subgroups doesn't work as expected for me (and perhaps others).

Lets say I have 10 track going to a subgroup and 5 of them are muted. Now if I mute then unmute the subgroup all 10 tracks are now unmuted. I was hoping that the 5 tracks previously muted would remain muted after unmuting the subgroup.

The same for soloing a subgroup, if I solo a subgroup I don't expect muted tracks that are routed to that subgroup to be heard.

Not sure if this is just 'my' logic or perhaps is a genuine principle.

I would certainly like a mixer mode in the settings that could respect muted tracks when muting/ soloing.

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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by Anthony Alves » Sun Mar 19, 2017 11:54 pm

In this situation I would use the bussing system. Cheers.

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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by mtingle » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:03 am

Anthony Alves wrote:In this situation I would use the bussing system. Cheers.
Yes but shouldn't the subgroups behave like the mute on busses?

what is useful about the behaviour of ignoring track mutes, what do people use this for I'm intrigued.

Also it's not useful to use buses as the solo function works strangely. Try soloing a track sent to a bus, you hear nothing, that's just not useful.
Last edited by mtingle on Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by King » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:41 am

Without going into details, 5% of the time I get similar/same/other issues with the Group solo/mute function.

I have worked around it, never reported it (too long), and 5% was ok-ish.. for me..

If and when I come across it again I'll add to this thread. But yes, its not fully reliable.

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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by mtingle » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:58 am

King wrote:Without going into details, 5% of the time I get similar/same/other issues with the Group solo/mute function.

I have worked around it, never reported it (too long), and 5% was ok-ish.. for me..

If and when I come across it again I'll add to this thread. But yes, its not fully reliable.

King
This is not a bug King, this is a type of behaviour of the solo/mute subgroup function.

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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by King » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:07 am

mtingle wrote:
King wrote:Without going into details, 5% of the time I get similar/same/other issues with the Group solo/mute function.

I have worked around it, never reported it (too long), and 5% was ok-ish.. for me..

If and when I come across it again I'll add to this thread. But yes, its not fully reliable.

King
This is not a bug King, this is a type of behaviour of the solo/mute subgroup function.
Forgot too add that it seemed at the time/s that it was in the "corrupt project" category. I will check out what happens, and when, to see if I can pin point it, and explain exactly what happens to me.

Soon. :)

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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by King » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:19 am

Just went through some projects to see if I could find the issue.. not yet. Can't remember which ones they were.
Auria Pro takes up almost '17 GB' (Seventeen), so it may take a little time, lol.

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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by King » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:33 am

I'm really trying to remember my issue/s now...

I think one of them was something like:

If I had 4 tracks going to a subgroup, and 2 of those tracks were muted, they would all sound when I solo'd the subgroup.
Don't quote me on this, as I said it's been a while.. I'll get back to ya!

But the solo subgroup, track/s unmuting thing sounds familiar also.. Although I just did a quick test of that with no probs.

Mini 2 - 10.2.1

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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by mtingle » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:08 am

as I said before King there are no bugs or issues with the muting and solo functions regarding subgroups, I'm try to raise the issue of the functionality of the muting and soloing of subgroups.

Not wishing to be rude but I don't want this thread derailed with bugs, could you put these type of posts in their own topic on the bug forum please.

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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by King » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:29 am

Not seeing it as rude mate.

maybe its not clear here?.. "Lets say I have 10 track going to a subgroup and 5 of them are muted. Now if I mute then unmute the subgroup all 10 tracks are now unmuted"

not quite getting what your saying..

No worries still, hope it gets sorted.

King

P.S sounds like a bug to me!
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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by mtingle » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:59 am

King wrote:Not seeing it as rude mate.

maybe its not clear here?.. "Lets say I have 10 track going to a subgroup and 5 of them are muted. Now if I mute then unmute the subgroup all 10 tracks are now unmuted"

not quite getting what your saying..

No worries still, hope it gets sorted.

King

P.S sounds like a bug to me!
It would be a bug if it only happen occasionally ;)

This is how it's supposed to function in Auria but I'm thinking it could be improved upon.

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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by Anthony Alves » Mon Mar 20, 2017 2:52 pm

mtingle wrote:
Anthony Alves wrote:In this situation I would use the bussing system. Cheers.
Yes but shouldn't the subgroups behave like the mute on busses?

what is useful about the behaviour of ignoring track mutes, what do people use this for I'm intrigued.

Also it's not useful to use buses as the solo function works strangely. Try soloing a track sent to a bus, you hear nothing, that's just not useful.
These are currently the bussing and subgroup rules in AuriaPro. The reason you don't hear any sound when you solo a track sent to a buss is because any track sent to a buss does not go to the main L/R output, the track that it is bussed to now does. The original track is hard wired to the new buss track so you would have to solo the buss track.
For the subgroups you can mute and solo the tracks sent to the subgroup as long as you never touch the solo or mute of the subgroup as that is global and affects any track sent to it. Notice that soloing the subgroup does not unmute the muted tracks sent to the subgroup only the mute affects them all by unmuting them. You can solo a subgroup of ten tracks to hear all ten. You can mute a subgroup to mute all ten. To individually hear the tracks solo part of the ten tracks or mute the ones you dont want to hear. Yes its a bit more work but this is how a mixing console works other than when you mute or unmute a subgroup it cant unmute the single muted tracks sent to the subgroup. Those remain muted because their not digitally or physically connected to the subgroup as Auria is. This is where Rim might be able to fix that but I think it has to do with Aurias internal wiring. You may already be aware of these behaviours but I posted the info just in case others don't understand how Aurias internal wiring system works. Cheers.

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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by mtingle » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:19 pm

Anthony Alves wrote:
mtingle wrote:
Anthony Alves wrote:In this situation I would use the bussing system. Cheers.
Yes but shouldn't the subgroups behave like the mute on busses?

what is useful about the behaviour of ignoring track mutes, what do people use this for I'm intrigued.

Also it's not useful to use buses as the solo function works strangely. Try soloing a track sent to a bus, you hear nothing, that's just not useful.
These are currently the bussing and subgroup rules in AuriaPro. The reason you don't hear any sound when you solo a track sent to a buss is because any track sent to a buss does not go to the main L/R output, the track that it is bussed to now does. The original track is hard wired to the new buss track so you would have to solo the buss track.
For the subgroups you can mute and solo the tracks sent to the subgroup as long as you never touch the solo or mute of the subgroup as that is global and affects any track sent to it. Notice that soloing the subgroup does not unmute the muted tracks sent to the subgroup only the mute affects them all by unmuting them. You can solo a subgroup of ten tracks to hear all ten. You can mute a subgroup to mute all ten. To individually hear the tracks solo part of the ten tracks or mute the ones you dont want to hear. Yes its a bit more work but this is how a mixing console works other than when you mute or unmute a subgroup it cant unmute the single muted tracks sent to the subgroup. Those remain muted because their not digitally or physically connected to the subgroup as Auria is. This is where Rim might be able to fix that but I think it has to do with Aurias internal wiring. You may already be aware of these behaviours but I posted the info just in case others don't understand how Aurias internal wiring system works. Cheers.
Thanks for the detailed answer Anthony.

I've tried to research muting subgroups on consoles but can't find any definite information. I know Rim likes to replicate the mixconsole concept as much as possible but I'm wondering if this really is the case that unmuting a subgroup effectively makes a clean slate of any track mutes that may of been in place.

It's important to remember that a console is used primarily for tracking (recording a performance) where as in Auria there is also an edit screen which is used for arrangement and this is where the usefulness of muting tracks comes in to it's own (unused take management etc).

It would certainly be massively handy and probably relatively easy (code wise) for Auria to remember and reinstate any track mutes after a subgroup is unmuted. There's a very good reason 10 tracks of duff vocal takes were muted, they were not meant to be heard, and I certainly don't want to hear them again if I momentarily mute that vocal group to listen to instruments.

If Auria had loop audio take management system this would be less of an issue however this use of subgroups and mutes is the only way to manage multiple takes as it stands.

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Re: Should muting/unmuting subgroup respect muted tracks?

Post by Denzkps » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:37 am

Anthony Alves wrote:In this situation I would use the bussing system. Cheers.
Anthony I can't use bus system because it very affect on the sound a I have noise, clicks, pops
It's like random clipping and I can't understand when and why it happens
Do you have any problems with bussing system?
Do you use MIDI or only audio Tracks?
And also Effects and side chain in bus Channel
May be buffer size or something else...

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