Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX + Auria Pro + MIDI keys

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JesusQuintana
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Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX + Auria Pro + MIDI keys

Post by JesusQuintana » Mon Oct 03, 2016 12:05 pm

Hi all,

First of all, thank you and kudos to the Auria team for making this unbelievable... thing. I started my recording career (OK, I fooled around with GarageBand like a week before..) with Auria not much more than 1 month ago, and boy am I enjoying it. I mean, I've been in recording bands half of my life, but I was never actively involved in the mixing of stuff, apart from drinking beer on various studio couches yelling "moar guitars, moar everything in the red!"

But. I will leave "my story" a bit short for now, and get to the POINT.

And I know the "point" is not really even an "Auria issue", I am just beyond googling and trying everything myself... after fighting maybe 10 hours total, in order to get the bloody UA-22 accept and like my Swissonic EasyKey 49 cheapo MIDI-keyboard. FWIW I am a total, absolute, complete, MIDI noob. I am a guitarist of 30+ years, and I only got my first keyboard ever (!!) because I want to p r o p e r l y learn how to play the b&w keys (eventually), and I'm fully aware how much fun I can have while getting there.

So finally, here goes:

1) Plug the keys to the Roland UA-22 with the MIDI cable delivered with said keys, hoping to get any sound out. This is the start, and pretty much the end, of my dilemma. Because as you can guess, I get nothing. No sound, no signal. Trust me, I read all manuals pretty thoroughly and for 4-5 days now I have only managed to get semi-happy by doing what a friend (who has nothing to do with music, that's why I asked her!) suggested, namely

2) "how about try to plug the iPad (Pro 9.7") directly to the keyboard?" Well well, that saved more than 1 day for me, because that made me aware the keyboard actually WORKS. So, yeah, Auria reads loud and clear. I fooled around for an hour or two, and I am pretty sure I get to do anything I will ever want with it - recording-wise, I mean. But. For there is always a 'but', right? :)

3) How on earth am I going to be able to PLAY them keys, I mean, without having to use iPad speakers or of course through any of my headphones? I mean, I want piano'ish sounds eventually to come out from my monitors. And as the status now stands, I am "halfway happy", meaning I spent some time this morning trying to figure how (or if) Auria could help me somehow to forward the wonderful sounds I am hearing, again (this makes no sense to myself, so I don't blame you if you don't understand me at all...), through the USB and via the Swissonic > MIDI cable > into the UA-22 > pouring out of my monitors? The very MIDI cable that should go from the OUTput of the keyboard into the INput of the Roland, right?

I know the above part will make any keyboardist or MIDI expert laugh out loud. Believe me, I am laughing too, because this is of course a first world problem if any. I mean, I can RECORD them keys, why am I insisting on hearing my terrible practising from the speakers, instead of being married to a headset all the time?

Let's just say I don't like it when things don't go my way. Only child and all that jazz. :D

And: I am really just wondering if there is anyone here with experience with the Roland UA-22, who has a snappy 10-words-or-less-solution for me. For as it stands now, I am looking angrily at that otherwise fine piece of electronics... as it clearly hates either me or the Swissonic. Oh, that OR the classic: have you tried with another MIDI cable? No, I have not, since I only own that 1 cable - bought it new, I be damned if it's the first piece of cord I ever bought in my life that was delivered faulty. Please don't tell me "it's the cable", pretty please.

TL;DR
Thank you for reading. Thank you for Auria. Thanks to absolutely anyone who can interrogate me the right way in order to solve this wee dilemma of mine. I don't know if Roland has an active message board anywhere, frankly, I am not too impressed with the information I find regarding that unit. The manual is rather thin, as well.

PS: If you read all of the above, and your head hurts, here, let me buy you a pint!

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Re: Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX + Auria Pro + MIDI keys

Post by Washboy » Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:04 pm

I've just had a quick browse through an online manual for the Swissonic and I reckon that your difficulty comes from the fact that the Swissonic gets its power via its USB connector only. So, when you have it plugged directly to your iPad (via USB and CCK) it's getting USB power (from the iPad) and your iPad automagically recognises it as a class-compliant MIDI device.

However, when your iPad is connected to your UA22 via USB+CCK and your Swissonic is connected to the UA22 via MIDI cable only, where is the Swissonic getting power from? It probably isn't getting any - unless you've got a USB hub in the setup too.

It may be a good idea to buy a powered USB hub. Plug both the UA22 and the Swissonic into it with USB cables and then connect it to the iPad via CCK. The hub will provide power to the Swissonic and the UA22 (but NOT to the iPad) and supply the data connection for everything. The UA22 will appear as an audio interface to the iPad and the Swissonic will appear as a MIDI device. The reason for using a powered hub (instead of an unpowered hub) is because the iPad isn't able to supply much power via USB and will complain with too many attached USB devices or even one 'greedy' one!

Hope that makes some sense. Good luck! :)

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Re: Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX + Auria Pro + MIDI keys

Post by JesusQuintana » Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:38 pm

Hey Washboy, and thank you for your response!

I know my wall of text didn't even cover all the details, I digress horribly and struggle to explain myself short.

The USB power... I never even thought that could be the "cause of it all", since, you know, I have computers, I have PS3/4, there's just USB slots available for me everywhere. So I used PS4 first, then my laptop, to just power the sucker up. I mean, that was my first task after unwrapping the Swissonic. I think I connected it to about any USB slot in the house with power on, and... yeah, I am certain the keyboard is well powered. All lights are on, etc. Then I just plugged in the MIDI cable to the UA-22 and... well, the rest is history (to a very small niche, namely just me).

How can the UA-22 be powered by USB? As I read it, it can get juice from 1) batteries and 2) the AC adapter. That's the only bit in your well written (to a complete noob such as myself) response that I kind of don't get. I mean, you are saying I would connect "all three" (Roland, Swissonic, iPad) to the same powered hub... damn, that sounds like it makes sense now. The hub would not only power the S49 and UA-22, but also help them "connect" with each other? I certainly never thought of that.

The Roland UA-22 specs do state (I swear, first time I paid attention to this!!):
"the DUO-CAPTURE EX can be powered via your computer's USB bus"

So, does that mean you can replace the above words "computer's USB bus" into "powered USB hub"? I mean, anything is worth a shot to me right now, but as I don't think - or, ahem, I don't fully believe, haha - power is a problem here, would you still reckon I should go ahead and buy me a powered USB hub?

Thanks again, dear sir. You helped me to "widen my spectrum" quite a bit here.

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Re: Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX + Auria Pro + MIDI keys

Post by JesusQuintana » Mon Oct 03, 2016 3:54 pm

No, wait...

If the Roland can draw it's juice via USB from a computer... how come it doesn't even blink when I connect it to the iPad (which, as you now know, powers up the keyboard juuuuust fine)?

Oh. A computer. Well, since iPad is technically a computer, but not quite, I now plugged in the Roland to my desktop powerhouse PC. It has a power unit that could light up an ice hockey rink... but, alas, as I plug it in, I see the green light (HOPE! YESSSS!!), but it just stays on for a second or two and then goes dark. I learned the UA-22 is happy with adapter power with a green light, and happy with battery power with a red light. Now, no lights.

That, to me, would nullify the Roland statement I copy/pasted in my previous message.

Or would I need to install DRIVERS on the PC first, to be able to know for sure?

Start home recording, they said. It'll be fun, they said. :D

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Re: Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX + Auria Pro + MIDI keys

Post by JesusQuintana » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:13 pm

Yeah, no.

Installing drivers (Win7, I'm one of those guys who used XP until it was EOL :D) does not pass power to the Roland UA-22. At least not enought to make light of any color to come on. Oh well. I will take th' sucker out tomorrow, to a shop nearby. They sell powered USB hubs. I will try it there first. I just can't quite figure why all this time I thought it's batteries or AC adapter only. Was I right, for once?

(this is where I'm almost tempted to take the odds for "faulty MIDI cable"... but since I know no one within 1000km to borrow me one, mehhhhhh. I can of course buy one and use the 10 day free to return policy, but... still don't think my 2334th cable of all times would be the one that bums me out..)

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Re: Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX + Auria Pro + MIDI keys

Post by sch » Mon Oct 03, 2016 4:58 pm

To confirm, the Duo is powered either by internal AA bats or with an AC adapter. It does not pass USB power.

The iPad should interface with the Duo via a CCK (camera connection kit). Make sure the rear switch is set to 'Tablet' and you should be good to go. (This is what I use, with an Axiom Air 61 keyboard.)

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Re: Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX + Auria Pro + MIDI keys

Post by Washboy » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:48 pm

Ah! Bad assumption, on my part :oops: I assumed that @JesusQuintana had the Duo working OK except for MIDI. I also forgot about the switch on the Duo. What does it do to make things work with iPad? (goes off to investigate)

Anyhow, the S49 still needs power and I don't think it's gonna get that via the MIDI DIN socket :wink: How are you powering your Axiom?

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Re: Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX + Auria Pro + MIDI keys

Post by JesusQuintana » Mon Oct 03, 2016 5:52 pm

Hey sch, and thank you too!

With my few weeks of 'learning by doing', I did all that on that famous AND infamous Day 1. TAB is a given, I guess, since I'm not getting a MacBook until Apple get their s*** together, and my PC is just... yeah, I always planned to go (back to) Apple whenever I thought I was big enough to start learning.

I don't know if ya'll have touched the UA-22, but it has a fair deal of switches at the back, you know, "weird switches that mean fudgeall" to someone like me who's just about to start his recording career. But sure enough, I tried all the combo's possible AND impossible, with those switches. For a while I thought the TAB switch would be the problem indeed. Then I thought "hmmm, maybe the keys are not MEANT to be played thru the amp, directly" and then went on with the iPad+Swissonic approach only. Except that one left me with the "half happy" situation I described earlier. I just could not fathom how on dog's earth a unit that reads MIDI (apparently) just doesn't receive a MIDI unit. Pardon my language, btw, English is my 3rd language and I suck particularly bad on the tech speak. Unless we talk about guitars, of course. :)

Now I am in that sub-phase of denial, where I am actually thinking "Roland screwed me". But that's also largely due to a few rum & pepsi's and the fact my roommate / brother / cat, he says "dude, it's 1:40am, how about a bellywub and no more fisting that keyboard you now seem to hate?". :)

Thanks for confirming the USB bit. It was certainly an eye-opening comment from Washboy, but I stopped believing in it after I took the UA-22 for a walk and installed drivers on both my laptop and desktop. Pip squeak none. Still very happy that the keyboard WORKS, and I can't even start a monologue here how much I like the few different sounds I can do with it. Lofi piano and the church organ sound just down right marvellous. (even when fumbled by a dude who can barely play those keys)

But as I bought those 2 active monitors with my "roof budget, but add 30%", I just wish... well, you know it already.

I just wanna rock that Hammond like it was 1972!

I was lurking on this forum for weeks, and have found an abundance of good info here already. I know I am new and all, but out of the 7-10 forums I ever joined in my life, this feels like a place I can find like-minded souls and next to ZERO a-holes. Is it thanks to Auria moderation policy, or thanks to the fact Auria just happens to be the greatest thing a guy in my age & with my background finds, literally, a gift from above? :)

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Re: Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX + Auria Pro + MIDI keys

Post by JesusQuintana » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:02 pm

Washboy wrote:Ah! Bad assumption, on my part :oops: I assumed that @JesusQuintana had the Duo working OK except for MIDI. I also forgot about the switch on the Duo. What does it do to make things work with iPad? (goes off to investigate)

Anyhow, the S49 still needs power and I don't think it's gonna get that via the MIDI DIN socket :wink:
Nah, Washboy, no bad assumptions here. My OP is a chaotic mess of psycho-babble at best. :D

You were being very helpful, don't think I wouldn't be thankful for that.

The S49 gets plenty of power, that was never a concern. It's somewhere in there, in that row of enthusiastic posts I made during this evening, hahah. I'm still thinking MOST LIKELY I forgot to try something crucial on that Day 1. Like, something that I forgot to check AFTER I just tried to "play some crappy keys" via the Roland (excluding iPad altogether). But then I realized I will need all these components to "talk to each other" and... my long-winding, frustration & rum fueled troubleshooting started.

So I am unplugging everything and starting from scratch tomorrow. I think I learned that back in 1991-2: sometimes just restarting everything, detaching/re-attaching every cable at play, for some inexplicable reason, that sometimes just works. Here's hoping, I gotta call it a night.

Thank you guys for making my 1st day in here a mighty nice one, indeed.

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Re: Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX + Auria Pro + MIDI keys

Post by Washboy » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:57 pm

Hope the recabling is successful :) Remember:

The Duo will only work correctly with the iPad when the switch on the back is set to "Tab" (the other two positions are for when connecting to PC/Mac and require drivers to be installed on the computer).

When switched to "Tab", the Duo can only be powered by batteries or optional AC adapter - not USB (although when using PC/Mac the Duo can be powered from USB as well). The Swissonic can only get power via its USB connector.

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Re: Roland UA-22 Duo Capture EX + Auria Pro + MIDI keys

Post by JesusQuintana » Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:24 am

Well that's just... *facepalm*

For WHATEVER reason, just sleeping on it and starting from scratch = problem solved. I can't believe it, but damn that piano sounds nice as it fills my flat. Loud. :D

Hey, thanks again to ya'll for friendliness and wisdom. I'll stick around and maybe learn stuff.

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