48 kHz issues in Auria Pro

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MacHound
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48 kHz issues in Auria Pro

Post by MacHound » Thu Apr 20, 2017 12:13 pm

I am reposting this bug report from another thread. In summary, I love Auria Pro and I am a huge advocate to others who may be considering mixing music on iPad. I use Auria Pro 2.10 on my iPad Air2 with iOS 10.3.1 to mix 9-12 track audio from our youth strings group's Allen & Heath Qu-Pac 32 mixer. Qu-recorded AIFF files are encoded at 48 kHz, 24 bit across all channels.

Our pianist is beginning to dabble with MIDI. We hope to use Auria Pro to mix his MIDI tracks with several 48 kHz strings tracks for CDs and web demos. Our pianist loves the sound of Lyra's C7 grand piano, xylophone, and other sampled instruments in Auria Pro. The problem is that whether MIDI files are recorded directly into an Auria project or added later, there are lots of random pops and crackles in the audio playback. It is quite distracting. Below are a series of observations regarding 48 kHz playback pops/crackles, which also happens on my iPad Mini in iOS 10.3.1 (i.e., not a single defective iPad):
MacHound wrote:I have been doing experimentation about this popping / clicking issue on the 48 kHz MIDI tracks and I found highly reproducible observations which, despite how bizarre they seem, are present across multiple projects involving different combinations of MIDI and non-MIDI instruments. Here are my observations regarding MIDI tracks in Auria Pro 2.10 beginning with three NEVER statements:

(1) 44.1 kHz projects: MIDI tracks NEVER pop for me regardless of changing instruments, track position or anything else... 44.1 kHz projects always sound fine (so far).

(2) 48 kHz projects: MIDI tracks NEVER pop when they are in the first or second track position (top).

(3) 48 kHz projects: MIDI tracks NEVER pop in any track position when the non-MIDI audio tracks above them contain no audible sound (i.e., the non-MIDI tracks have been trimmed or moved not to overlap with the MIDI track in the vertical orientation.)

(4) 48 kHz projects: MIDI tracks begin to have popping issues when there is more than one non-MIDI track with audio above a MIDI track. A single non-MIDI track above a MIDI track is not enough to produce popping / clicking. It takes two or more audio tracks with sound located above the MIDI track to elicit popping.

(5) 48 kHz projects: Dragging a MIDI track from the bottom of a project's track list to the top or second-from-top track position eliminates MIDI popping. Dragging the MIDI track back down the track list restores the popping (most of the time but not always). Sometimes an instrument change or two is needed to get the popping to start again.

(6) 48 kHz projects: The severity of the popping depends on the instrument being played. For instance, among the Lyra sampler pianos, Classic Grand piano tends to pop more often than C7 Grand, which itself pops more noticeably than Salamander Grand. Even within a single instrument some pops are more obvious than others.

(7) 48 kHz projects: Popping can go away for a while when a project is exited and reentered depending on factors I have yet to identify. I wish the pops would stay away, but they eventually start back again after the fourth or fifth listening.

(8) 48 kHz projects: Even with a single MIDI instrument loaded and everything else unchanged, the clicks always happen in different and apparently random time locations during playback. It's not like a scratched vinyl record where the click always happens in the same spot, though the popping sound is otherwise somewhat reminiscent of a scratched vinyl record or one that developed a static charge.

(9) 48 kHz projects: Three non-midi audio tracks above a MIDI track seems to produce worse popping than only two non-midi audio tracks above a MIDI track. This observation is only partially confirmed. Beyond three consecutive non-MIDI tracks, I cannot hear any difference.

(10) It doesn't seem to matter if processing is present or absent on the non-MIDI tracks... popping occurs either way when a MIDI track lies below two or more non-MIDI tracks.

(11) It doesn't seem to matter whether non-MIDI tracks are muted or playing audibly.

(12) It doesn't seem to matter whether the non-MIDI tracks are stereo or mono... either way, the above observations apply.

(13) Adding one or more empty tracks between a MIDI track (say track 14) and multiple non-MIDI tracks (1-10) does not seem to prevent popping, though it may lessen it somewhat.

If the above observations sound like shaking chicken's feet to make continents drift, that's how it feels. I would not be writing these bizarre observations if they weren't so reproducible.
In summary, I can get Auria Pro's popping / clicking problem to go away by putting our pianist's MIDI recording in track 1 or track 2, but not in track 3 or lower - unless there's pure silence in the top tracks. For our youth strings group, that is a satisfactory solution. It doesn't explain the popping / crackling nor voodoo necessary to make it go away. Thanks.

[Edited 4/22/17 to remove a broken link]
Last edited by MacHound on Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Strandskov
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Re: 48 kHz issues in Auria Pro

Post by Strandskov » Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:12 pm

I just made recordings on 3 audio tracks, and added a midi track to start playing with keys....and clicks and pops came in, just as you describe.....
Hope they find fix for that soon. Or I will turn to 44.1 kHz....

Thanks for the very detailed post.

Rim
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Re: 48 kHz issues in Auria Pro

Post by Rim » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:09 pm

Thanks @MacHound for letting me know about this issue. It's very strange indeed! I've removed the other thread for redundancy.

One thing I wanted to ask - Are you certain that no other apps are running on your iPad when this issue happens? In iOS, sometimes a rouge IAA will still run in the background even after you close it by double tapping on the home button, so it's best to close all apps using the home button, then reboot the iPad just to make sure everything is gone. The reason I bring that up is because many iOS audio apps don't work with 48K, so having even one other app open while using Auria at 48K can possibly cause havoc.

Rim

Rim
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Re: 48 kHz issues in Auria Pro

Post by Rim » Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:10 pm

Also, do you only see this issue when using Lyra, or does it happen when using other synths with a MIDI track?

Rim

MacHound
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Re: 48 kHz issues in Auria Pro

Post by MacHound » Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:55 am

RIM, a fresh iPad reboot and running Auria Pro immediately with no other apps does NOT eliminate the pops and stutters.

Compliments: I love the organic feeling of Auria Pro. It reminds me of the various buzzes, wolf notes and harmonic interactions on my 150 year old cello. A person should not own an older acoustic instrument if they don't enjoy performing voodoo to keep it working. What I am saying is that you have put a strong analogue feeling into Auria Pro that other DAWs mostly lack. I accept that analogue feeling as a fair trade for some weirdness now and then.

Thank you for looking into this issue.

Rim
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Re: 48 kHz issues in Auria Pro

Post by Rim » Fri Apr 21, 2017 6:29 am

Can you please do an experiment to see if it's related to Lyra exclusively, or if you can make the issue go away by removing all Lyra instances from your project? This would be helpful to narrow it down.

The fact that it's happening in Cubasis as well makes me wonder if iOS isn't involved somehow. Maybe some obscure 48K bug.

Rim

MacHound
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Re: 48 kHz issues in Auria Pro

Post by MacHound » Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:19 am

The Cubasis 2 situation may be completely different, and indeed it seems to be resolved for me today. I don't use Cubasis enough to comment about it's clicking except to report that when I had clicking it was highly repetitive - multiple clicks per second in 48 kHz projects and no clicks when I switched projects to 44.1 kHz. (That's a nice feature, BTW, being able to switch project bitrate back-and-forth easily). I am not a Cubasis fan, probably because I haven't invested enough time with it.

Sorry I did not comment about Lyra due to being in a rush for work. I also get Auria Pro 48 kHz clicks in FabFilter Triangle, FabFilter Head Hunter, FabFilter Old Piano, FF Cream Bell PS, FF Bowed Solo Strings, etc. I didn't test many others. Some FabFilter instruments are so grungy sounding that the clicks would be difficult to hear.

So the issue is not specific to Lyra.

MacHound
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Re: 48 kHz issues in Auria Pro

Post by MacHound » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:10 am

One more detail which I forgot to mention in my original post above. I performed all of my MIDI experiments using Auria Pro's default 512 buffer size. I have no idea if that is a factor but I thought I should mention it. Please ask if there is any other relevant info I left out.

I would be happy to provide one or more of our music projects for your experimentation if you like.

Thank you again.

MacHound
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Re: 48 kHz issues in Auria Pro

Post by MacHound » Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:41 pm

The 48 kHz clicking issue continues in multiple projects. A significant further detail... it only clicks in live playback, not on mixdown. Ordinarily live playback wouldn't be too big of a problem except that our strings group likes to put on their recordings when they go on break during a gig. That makes Auria Pro a less ideal mixer for us in the live performance setting.

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