Tempo change causes MIDI clips to trim, shift

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Jmcmillan
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Tempo change causes MIDI clips to trim, shift

Post by Jmcmillan » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:14 am

I had recorded two MIDI track, one piano, one cello, both using Lyra. I wanted to increase the tempo, so selected on the BPM are and changed from 82 to 90. Upon returning to the MIDI tracks, they were auto trimmed, by roughly half. I could just use the trim handle and move the clip edge back to the original size, so the data was still there; I could fix it.

The second track however was a different story. The cello didn't come in until after first chorus so the clip on this track was not as long as the piano clip. It shifted this clip out of time with the original second verse entry point. I could just move it back into place, but the clip played back just a little off time (I guess maybe a 32nd note off). I tried to fix it in the piano roll editor, but it showed the notes shifted ever so slightly off the beat and would not allow me to snap them by moving them. I tried deleting the clip and re recording but same problem happened. I had to delete the track and redo it from scratch.
Thanks!
Jon

Jmcmillan
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Re: Tempo change causes MIDI clips to trim, shift

Post by Jmcmillan » Sun Jan 15, 2017 1:13 pm

Hello all,
Found some work arounds...

I found that if the MIDI clip is NOT starting at measure 1 beat 1, it would shift when the tempo was changed. If the MIDI clip was then extended using the trim handle back to M1B1, then it DID NOT shift.

I can't keep the trimming from happening though. But, the data is still there, you just have to use the trim handle to reveal it.

On another note, another work around for UNDOING a tempo change...
I found after changing the tempo and the shifting occurs, that undo will take it back after the Undo. Sometimes after the "undo time settings" operation happens, the MIDI clip is still not shifted back. Using an example,
1.the tempo was changed from 100 to 120.
2.Select undo and the tempo displayed shows it has changed back to 100, however the clip is not shifted back to 100, it's still off timing.
3.Then select on the BPM display, and in the tempo/metronome dialog box, the tempo field will still show 120. Change it to 100 and OK to exit and the remaining MIDI clips will shift back to 100 tempo.

Just wanted to post these work around in case others were struggling with this...don't give up on Auria, it's a FANTASTIC app!
Thanks!
Jon

Jmcmillan
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Re: Tempo change causes MIDI clips to trim, shift

Post by Jmcmillan » Sun Jan 29, 2017 9:44 pm

Rim,
Saw you will be posting an update soon. Wanted to post some detail pics how to recreate this bug. It's a repeatable occurance.
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Thanks!
Jon

Rim
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Re: Tempo change causes MIDI clips to trim, shift

Post by Rim » Mon Jan 30, 2017 6:48 am

Thanks for the extra info. I've known about this issue for a while now, but haven't figured out a way to fix it yet... In the mean time, it's really advisable to pick the tempo you're going to use ahead of time, when you create the project.

Rim

Jmcmillan
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Re: Tempo change causes MIDI clips to trim, shift

Post by Jmcmillan » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:43 am

Thanks Rim, for letting me know. I will try to make a repeatable workaround. I know coding bugs are not easy to fix.
Thanks for a good app!
Thanks!
Jon

Jmcmillan
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Re: Tempo change causes MIDI clips to trim, shift

Post by Jmcmillan » Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:47 pm

Sorry I couldn't find a repeatable workaround. The one I tried listed in above, extending the region to M1B1, didn't work consistently. I also tried to edit the tempo track but the same shifting occurred.

So I guess, if the tempo must be changed, then whichever track shifts has to be realigned. Best way I found to do that is change the snap to "none" and zoom way in on the lead note of the shifted tracks region and manually realign.

Unfortunately, in writing Orchestra music, tempo changes at the end of a phrase can add some realism to the song, so I might be using this workaround quite a bit.

Thanks!
Jon
Thanks!
Jon

Jmcmillan
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Re: Tempo change causes MIDI clips to trim, shift

Post by Jmcmillan » Thu May 11, 2017 5:43 am

Rim,
Any updates on this MIDI bug?
Thanks!
Jon
Thanks!
Jon

Jmcmillan
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Re: Tempo change causes MIDI clips to trim, shift

Post by Jmcmillan » Sat Jul 29, 2017 7:03 pm

Rim,
Here are some steps to reproduce the MIDI bug I found:
1. Tempo =120. Track one add midi track. Program in C scale in quarter notes.
2. Track 2 add midi track. Program in a c scale in quarter notes, one octave down.
3. Play to make sure notes line up
4. Move track two's region 2 beats forward to beat 3 so that the e note on track 1 lines up with c note on track 2
5. Change tempo up from 120 to 150
6. Change tempo back to 120.

Track 2 will shift. Also Midi clips will trim themselves. Data is still there just have to extend the midi clip back to full length.

Another variation:
1. Tempo =120. Track one add midi track. Program in C scale in quarter notes.
2. Track 2 add midi track. Program in a c scale in quarter notes, one octave down.
3. Play to make sure notes line up
4. Move track two's region 2 beats forward to beat 3 so that the e note on track 1 lines up with c note on track 2
5. Edit tempo track and add a tempo change to 150 on beat 2 measure 1.
Track 2 will shift.

Another variation
1. Tempo =120. Track one add midi track. Program in C scale in quarter notes.
2. Track 2 add midi track. Program in a c scale in quarter notes, one octave down.
3. Play to make sure notes line up
4. Move BOTH tracks forward to beat 3, so they both start at beat 3.
5. Change tempo up from 120 to 150
6. Change tempo back to 120.

Both tracks will stay aligned, but their start point will change from beat 3 to about halfway between beat 2 and 3.

In all cases, If you skip step 4, or in other words keep the tracks aligned to measure 1 beat 1, no amount of variation of tempo changes will cause a track misalign.
Thanks!
Jon

Jmcmillan
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Re: Tempo change causes MIDI clips to trim, shift

Post by Jmcmillan » Sat Jul 29, 2017 8:40 pm

.
Thanks!
Jon

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Re: Tempo change causes MIDI clips to trim, shift

Post by Rim » Sat Jul 29, 2017 9:06 pm

Please see my reply in the other thread.

RIm

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