ASK THE RECORDING EXPERTS

For general questions or discussion of Auria.

Moderators: Corey W, Rim

Post Reply
User avatar
Anthony Alves
Expert
Posts: 1264
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:52 am

Re: ASK THE RECORDING EXPERTS

Post by Anthony Alves » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:13 pm

sch wrote:
Anthony Alves wrote:To cure this matter simple set a LowCut filter in ProQ and dial it to 25Hz to 30Hz essentially removing any frequencies in the lower sub bass range that truly affects the muddiness of the mix. Then set the ProQ to midside mode and select another LowCut filter and set the frequency to 90 Hz in the side channel (select the S to the right of the sizers) and this eliminates any subharmonic frequencies and most subwoofers are crossed over at 100Hz. This will fix your problem forever and no matter what speakers you play your track on the bottom end still sounds under control. there are of course variations on this method but as a general rule this works. cheers
Anthony, you do this on all channels (presumably other than the bass)? Or is this a Sub or Master treatment?
You can do this to any channel or Master channel. It is more drastic when applied to a full mix but was commonly used on records to stop the needle from bouncing on the disk due to the low frequency pump so many of our most loved albums were done this way. It works good at taming the bottom end of Low sub kick drums and low frequency bass. If you apply this technique to the individual low frequency tracks then you wont find the problem at the mixdown stage but you can still apply some of the low cut just not as low. For House or deep bass wobble effects then a lower sub may be desired but it's best to mix that on a sub woofer so that you can eq the sub bass to taste and actually hear it. Feel free to experiment with frequencies around those frequency target. eg 22Hz LowCut or 80Hz midside. cheers.

supanorton
Expert
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:38 pm
Contact:

Re: ASK THE RECORDING EXPERTS

Post by supanorton » Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:26 am

Thank you, Anthony. I'll try experimenting with these suggestions.

Shay
Expert
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:24 pm
Contact:

Re: ASK THE RECORDING EXPERTS

Post by Shay » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:15 am

Hi There Experts,

Does anybody know if there is a benefit from working with 96K projects?
If I paste sounds from other apps then Auria upgrades it to 96K, but there is no additional information to the source sound.
The question is if i record via Audiobus from other apps, can I get a 96K without converting?

Thanks,
Shay

User avatar
Anthony Alves
Expert
Posts: 1264
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:52 am

Re: ASK THE RECORDING EXPERTS

Post by Anthony Alves » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:26 am

96k offers more information for the audio to be reproduced into the digital domain but the amount of stress it puts on your cpu makes it not the best choice. Some say that most can not hear the difference as well any track brought into Auria via audiobus is still the same quality . In simple terms there is no advantage to using 96k unless you can handle it on your recording device and the iPad's memory and cpu speed are not quite high enough yet to comfortably record at this sample rate and the difference you will hear will be very little to none. This sample rate has been known to even stall a MacBook Pro with lots of ram and cpu speed. Also remember that an audio file recorded at 24bit 96k uses 2x the drive space for wav files compared to 24bit 44.1k. As well problems can arise during the sample rate conversion if your going to use it on CD or DVD. The rule I follow is 24bit 48k for Rock and Pop music and video and 24bit 44.1 for CD mastering with 16 bit dither noise applied. If I'm just recording a single performer say acoustic guitar and vocal and my project is only about 3-4 tracks then I give it all I have for the clearest and pristine sound but only on very transparent tracks do I notice a better sheen on the high end and the bottom of the acoustic is well defined. In a full rock or pop mix or hip hop our house you will be pressed to notice any difference or just minor.
hope this helps and I think there was some good posts on this subject before so maybe do a search and you may find more info. As well the web has some great articles on the subject.cheers

Shay
Expert
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:24 pm
Contact:

Re: ASK THE RECORDING EXPERTS

Post by Shay » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:08 pm

Thank you very much Anthony.
This information really help.
My 96K projects are too large for my poor 16GB iPad and I will use 48k or 44.1k in my next projects.

Regards

supanorton
Expert
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:38 pm
Contact:

Re: ASK THE RECORDING EXPERTS

Post by supanorton » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:27 pm

To cure this matter simple set a LowCut filter in ProQ and dial it to 25Hz to 30Hz essentially removing any frequencies in the lower sub bass range that truly affects the muddiness of the mix. Then set the ProQ to midside mode and select another LowCut filter and set the frequency to 90 Hz in the side channel (select the S to the right of the sizers) and this eliminates any subharmonic frequencies and most subwoofers are crossed over at 100Hz. This will fix your problem forever and no matter what speakers you play your track on the bottom end still sounds under control. there are of course variations on this method but as a general rule this works. cheers

Anthony,
When you say, "then set ProQ to midside mode and select another LowCut filter and set the frequency to 90 Hz in the side channel (select the S to the right of the sizers) and this eliminates any subharmonic frequencies and most subwoofers are crossed over at 100Hz", do mean run two seperate inserts of ProQ in the master? I tried setting a second low cut and eliminated the first. Just want to make sure. Thanks.

User avatar
Anthony Alves
Expert
Posts: 1264
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:52 am

Re: ASK THE RECORDING EXPERTS

Post by Anthony Alves » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:59 pm

no you just use one ProQ. You may have already selected this but Don't forget to select mid/side mode not L/R .Just double tap to create another dot on the frequency curve line. try to do it away from the last on that you did so as not to get them too close together so you can see it better. Now when you see the next new dot or marker as it were, touch the S to which stands for side the m is for middle. Now select your Lowcut filter and set the frequency to 90hz. you can keep doing this on the same ProQ up to 22 times. These are called instances but you can imagine each one being a slider on an eq. 22 to be exact. and each one you can dial in its frequency and gain of that frequency. Like as if each slider on the eq also contained a volume control as well as the ability to zero in on any frequency you wish each of the single 22 sliders to control. QWow. Let me know how you make out. You gotta watch Dan Worral on Fabfilter as he demonstrates the ProQ. The best tutorial video on that plugin. just go to Fabfilter.com.
cheers and hope this helped.

supanorton
Expert
Posts: 408
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:38 pm
Contact:

Re: ASK THE RECORDING EXPERTS

Post by supanorton » Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:50 am

Anthony Alves wrote:no you just use one ProQ. You may have already selected this but Don't forget to select mid/side mode not L/R .Just double tap to create another dot on the frequency curve line. try to do it away from the last on that you did so as not to get them too close together so you can see it better. Now when you see the next new dot or marker as it were, touch the S to which stands for side the m is for middle. Now select your Lowcut filter and set the frequency to 90hz. you can keep doing this on the same ProQ up to 22 times. These are called instances but you can imagine each one being a slider on an eq. 22 to be exact. and each one you can dial in its frequency and gain of that frequency. Like as if each slider on the eq also contained a volume control as well as the ability to zero in on any frequency you wish each of the single 22 sliders to control. QWow. Let me know how you make out. You gotta watch Dan Worral on Fabfilter as he demonstrates the ProQ. The best tutorial video on that plugin. just go to Fabfilter.com.
cheers and hope this helped.
Got it. Wow, what a difference. Great method for taming the low frequencies. Thanks, Anthony.

louparte
Expert
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:05 am

Re: Recording levels - master vs. individual tracks?

Post by louparte » Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:43 pm

I'm confused about setting levels & the relation between master and track levels.

Last night I'm recording two tracks sumultaneously from a synth. The first pass, the track levels are peaking between
-15 & -10. But I had the master level way down to - 20 or more.

I thought the track levels were fine. But I couldn't hear any playback. So re-record it w/the master raised and the track levels the same. Then the track levels are flaming out into red.

I finally found a manageable compromise. But is there a method to this I don't mow about? A rule of thumb?
It seems hit or miss. Thanks.

User avatar
Anthony Alves
Expert
Posts: 1264
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:52 am

Re: Recording levels - master vs. individual tracks?

Post by Anthony Alves » Mon Apr 22, 2013 11:18 am

louparte wrote:I'm confused about setting levels & the relation between master and track levels.

Last night I'm recording two tracks sumultaneously from a synth. The first pass, the track levels are peaking between
-15 & -10. But I had the master level way down to - 20 or more.

I thought the track levels were fine. But I couldn't hear any playback. So re-record it w/the master raised and the track levels the same. Then the track levels are flaming out into red.

I finally found a manageable compromise. But is there a method to this I don't mow about? A rule of thumb?
It seems hit or miss. Thanks.
Hi Louparte, here is what works for me. I leave the master fader a unity -0- and leave the track fader also at unity-0- but I set the record level by the level of the input device like say your synths volume out or your audio interfaces input gain control. I like to record my track really low as digital doesn't need to be too hot as you can lose precious headroom when recording too hot in digital. Then if the track is too low and I want it louder, I simply go into the editor and highlight the entire track and tap process and tap gain and set the gain to +2 db and process. If it needs to be louder I just keep hitting process until I get the level I'm looking for. Alternatively you can decrease a tracks level this way as well as usually most audio/copy from another app is usually too hot so I use this method to get things under control. Also if you have the ProL you can set it to K20 during mix down and even track recording if your iPad can handle it. This helps to keep a good level for you but wont affect the tracks you've recorded just the playback. Inset this ProL in the last slot of the master buss fader. cheers and hope this helps.

louparte
Expert
Posts: 104
Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:05 am

Re: Recording levels - master vs. individual tracks?

Post by louparte » Tue Apr 23, 2013 5:09 pm

Thanks. If I did it that way, the output from this synth would be crazy low.

It appears my master meter reflects changes in playback volume. My track meters show input levels only.
I still haven't found a satisfactory method. The manual suggests -18.

Different sources have different outputs. My Korg M3 kicks out a lot of output. It's the most difficult to meter here.
I don't know what to trust yet. I run the M3 directly into ioDock - bypassing the mixer. So I can't hear the output on monitors - except via the ioDock's output - which reduces volume.
Anthony Alves wrote:
louparte wrote:I'm confused about setting levels & the relation between master and track levels.

Last night I'm recording two tracks sumultaneously from a synth. The first pass, the track levels are peaking between
-15 & -10. But I had the master level way down to - 20 or more.

I thought the track levels were fine. But I couldn't hear any playback. So re-record it w/the master raised and the track levels the same. Then the track levels are flaming out into red.

I finally found a manageable compromise. But is there a method to this I don't mow about? A rule of thumb?
It seems hit or miss. Thanks.
Hi Louparte, here is what works for me. I leave the master fader a unity -0- and leave the track fader also at unity-0- but I set the record level by the level of the input device like say your synths volume out or your audio interfaces input gain control. I like to record my track really low as digital doesn't need to be too hot as you can lose precious headroom when recording too hot in digital. Then if the track is too low and I want it louder, I simply go into the editor and highlight the entire track and tap process and tap gain and set the gain to +2 db and process. If it needs to be louder I just keep hitting process until I get the level I'm looking for. Alternatively you can decrease a tracks level this way as well as usually most audio/copy from another app is usually too hot so I use this method to get things under control. Also if you have the ProL you can set it to K20 during mix down and even track recording if your iPad can handle it. This helps to keep a good level for you but wont affect the tracks you've recorded just the playback. Inset this ProL in the last slot of the master buss fader. cheers and hope this helps.

fusionarts
Expert
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:44 pm

Re: ASK THE RECORDING EXPERTS

Post by fusionarts » Wed Apr 24, 2013 9:45 pm

Any one know of a tutorial for Auria that focuses on automation. I understand the concept, but can't seem to get the dots, and line to cooperate :D
Last edited by fusionarts on Thu Apr 25, 2013 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"In cordibus nostris Iesus in aeternum vivat"
“L i v e J e s u s i n o u r h e a r t s, f o r e v e r”
-----------------------------------------------------------
iPad Pro - 128GB - iOS 9.3 - Auria Pro

Washboy
Expert
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:55 am
Location: London, UK

Does one app record better than another?

Post by Washboy » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:44 am

This is probably a dumbass question but: Leaving aside UI differences and other 'subjective' issues, is there a measurable difference between how/what one app records and another (assuming the same bit-depth and sample rate and audio interface)?

Or, to put it another way, without EQ and other user-controllable processing, would Auria, Cubasis, MT DAW, GB, BM2, AudioShare, Hokusai, etc., all produce the same raw audio data?

Rim
Site Admin
Posts: 8061
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: ASK THE RECORDING EXPERTS

Post by Rim » Thu Apr 25, 2013 8:59 am

No, there are many factors that go into processing audio (even when no effects are being used), for example the mixing/summing algorithms used, internal bit depth (fixed, floating point, single vs double precision), dithering, etc.

Rim

Washboy
Expert
Posts: 926
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2012 5:55 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Does one app record better than another?

Post by Washboy » Thu Apr 25, 2013 10:24 am

Rim wrote:No, there are many factors that go into processing audio (even when no effects are being used), for example the mixing/summing algorithms used, internal bit depth (fixed, floating point, single vs double precision), dithering, etc.

Rim
Many thanks, Rim.

Does that mean that it's always better to record directly into Auria than to use another recording app and then transfer the audio across to Auria (remembering that ACP and Audiobus would force 16bit, if used for transfer)? I'm thinking here of a situation where, say, sound-activated recording is desirable (which Auria doesn't cater for) but best quality audio is also needed. If another app (or even desktop prog) offers 24bit/96kHz and has sound-activation, might it still be better to use Auria (and work around the lack of sound-activation) because the end result would be somehow 'cleaner'? Or am I barking up completely the wrong tree? :oops:

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests