HELP. TIME SHIFT WITH MIXDOWN

For general questions or discussion of Auria.

Moderators: Corey W, Rim

Post Reply
Anfirmor
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:04 am

HELP. TIME SHIFT WITH MIXDOWN

Post by Anfirmor » Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:45 pm

Ok I'm now right in the midden. I've been working on a project where a guide track was supplied to me from a studio for each song. Each track was supplied to me as 24 bit 44.1kHz files which I imported and ensured were left aligned to time zero in Auria (Pro version).

Now I,ve spent days adding my audio (strings) and wish to send my parts back to the clients studio so they can be included into the their project.

So I now find both mixing down (to include a bit of corrective eq etc) and bouncing in place add significant delay time shifts, pushing the audio to the right. I've no inter app or audio units plug-ins loaded. I've just used the track effects and convolution reverb.

What is going on? Why isn't Auria sample accurate for mixdown. How the hell am I going to get this stuff away and be sure the tracks I give back are easy for the client to drag left to time zero so they align with their tracks. I'm devestated.

Please help. I need an answer quickly. Surely Auria is marketed as a professional program and this is just not good enough.

Desperate.

Rim
Site Admin
Posts: 7845
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: HELP. TIME SHIFT WITH MIXDOWN

Post by Rim » Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:30 pm

Are you using the latest Auria version (2.09)? I fixed a bug related to the convolution reverb and mixdown in 2.09. Are you using any buses? Is the reverb on an aux send, or on each individual track?

Rim

Anfirmor
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:04 am

Re: HELP. TIME SHIFT WITH MIXDOWN

Post by Anfirmor » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:31 am

Hi Rim

Sorry about the mini rant at the end of original message.

IPad mini 4 64GB
Auria Pro 2.09 (upgrade to pro version)

Tracks have Auria only effects. EQ, Compression, Saturation.
Mono Convolution Reverb as a track insert rather than Aux bus. Just simpler with my work flow this time. Disarming the reverb with the channel insert "IN" button has no effect. Time shift still there.

This morning I tried turning off the reverb by removing it completely, rather than using the "IN" button. I also switched off any other effects. So no eq,compression, saturation.
Now a bounce in place seems to work. Didn't try mixdown as I'm pushing my luck at work. However even enabling the stated effects (eq, compression, saturation) but with the convolution reverb removed still gives a time shift but it is less extreme. You can see this shift by putting the time cursor on a transient before bounce in place.

It looks like the effects process time is not being compensated during mixing and bouncing.

So is the only way of getting these tracks out of Auria and ensuring correct time by leaving out any effects.

Anfirmor
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:04 am

Re: HELP. TIME SHIFT WITH MIXDOWN

Post by Anfirmor » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:56 am

OK Rim. I tried a quick experiment.
On one of my projects (24bit 44.1 kHz) I recorded a new track. One sharp transient (steel rule hit on bench). Started recording away from zero. Recording starts 170285 samples in.

First transient peak is at 207922 samples.

Now I applied Eq, Compression, Saturation and Convolution Reverb as an insert.

Applied Bounce In Place

First transient peak now at 208147 samples (gained 4094 samples or about 93ms)

Hit undo to revert to just recorded state.

Removed Convolution reverb completely and performed bounce in place with Eq, Compression and Saturation (any mix of these gives same answer so must be operating as a block in software).

First transient peak now at 208147 (gained 225 samples or 5.1ms)


The reverb is by far the worst but this shift is still there if any effects are used, which is disturbing.

Can I safely assume that I can get my tracks out to an external editor and cut the required amont of sample from the front edge of each mixdown and be within a few samples? Is this a fair work around until this bug is fixed?

thanks

Anfirmor
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:04 am

Re: HELP. TIME SHIFT WITH MIXDOWN

Post by Anfirmor » Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:35 am

Now tried mixdown functions at 24bit 44.1 kHz

All combinations of effects in or out, mono or stereo mixdown and one, two or three tracks mixed down add an extra 4320 samples, or a time shift of about 98mS. There does not seem to be any variance between convolution reverb in or out.

Funnily having no effects at all seemed to result in 2 extra samples being added (4322) but I am using the time cursor and maximum zoom to take these results.

So I will try to mix down again. Export via iTunes file sharing to a PC wave editor. Cut 4320 samples from the start of the file. Re import into Auria and check for timing.

I hope there is a fix for this as it looks like a very serious bug which spoils a very nice app. I can't trust Auria again until this is sorted.

Another minor issue is i noticed that mixing down to a file, deleting the mixdown (track and file), performing a track adjustment (shortening a section) and then re performing mixdown using the same file name did not work. The mixdown stubbornly stayed as the first mix until i tried a new name.

Rim
Site Admin
Posts: 7845
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: HELP. TIME SHIFT WITH MIXDOWN

Post by Rim » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:02 am

Interesting, thanks for the in depth testing. I agree, something must not be right with the delay compensation system during mixdown/bounce. I've added this to my list.

Rim

Anfirmor
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:04 am

Re: HELP. TIME SHIFT WITH MIXDOWN

Post by Anfirmor » Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:24 am

Thanks Rim. Hope it's a daft one and not a massive headache

Tested again.

Recorded sharp transient on track start for alignment checking
Mixed down in Auria. Noted time difference is there.
Exported mix via iTunes file sharing to PC
Subtracted 4320 samples in Audacity on PC and saved (24bit 44.1 kHz)
To check fix worked re-imported to iPad via iTunes file sharing
Imported into same Auria project to check transient alignment
lines up pretty much spot on as much as I can see.

Ugly workaround but at least I can get my files away now.

User avatar
richardyot
Expert
Posts: 466
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:45 am

Re: HELP. TIME SHIFT WITH MIXDOWN

Post by richardyot » Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:30 am

I've had this problem since the release of Auria Pro. I bugged it a while back, but any mixdown or bounce in place that uses insert effects is likely to be out of time. Would really love to see this one fixed. :)

User avatar
mtingle
Expert
Posts: 989
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:47 am
Location: Cornwall, UK

Re: HELP. TIME SHIFT WITH MIXDOWN

Post by mtingle » Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:04 pm

This one has bugged the hell out of me too since Auria pro was released. There is no reliable way to export sample accurate mixes for collaboration work with Auria Pro currently. Please fix!

Anfirmor
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:04 am

Re: HELP. TIME SHIFT WITH MIXDOWN

Post by Anfirmor » Wed Mar 01, 2017 6:11 am

OK my method was long winded. No need to use iTunes or a PC. Loosing the 4320 samples from a mixdown, or any other number of samples, can be done entirely within Auria.
Set time display to "samples".
Zoom right into start of mixdown track.
Move timeline curser to 4320
Split mixdown track
Delete unwanted front section.
Drag track to the left up to time line zero.
MOST IMPORTANTLY. Condense Regions from the Process Menu.
The corrected file is in the project folder. To confirm delete from track and re import. Should line up OK.

I think I shall be adding a sharp transient (audio clapperboard) to one of my tracks in any project to check mixdowns and bounces until Rim fixes this.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: ERedRick, Google [Bot], wigglelights and 2 guests