Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra [pushed to Bug Report area]

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Jmcmillan
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Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra [pushed to Bug Report area]

Post by Jmcmillan » Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:48 am

Hello all,
Wanting to know from those who have tried SSO in LYRA.
I have transferred the samples and SFZ file with no issue. Had to re-write the SFZ files so that the sample= folder reference was correct. LYRA wants the samples in a folder that the SFZ file is in.

Question is: does anyone else have the same trouble with the brass sounds (and maybe some others)?
My trouble is that the sample play back volume does not vary with the input velocity, except to play the sample VERY LOUD if I get to the 120-ish velocity area.

The string and woodwind sounds sample play back volume changes with input velocity.

Anyone else have this issue? If so, is there a way to code the SFZ file to fix it?
Thanks!
Jon
Last edited by Jmcmillan on Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thanks!
Jon

Jmcmillan
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Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:36 am
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Re: Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra

Post by Jmcmillan » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:12 am

Here's what the group area at the beginning of the SFZ code is (see below). Any ideas why the brass sounds would be super soft until you hit high velocity (around 120)? String sounds play perfectly fine.
Thanks!
Jon

// ------------------------------
// Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra
// ------------------------------
// Trumpets Sustain
// ------------------------------

<group>
ampeg_attack=0.250
ampeg_vel2attack=-0.250
ampeg_hold=1.100
ampeg_decay=28
ampeg_sustain=35
ampeg_release=0.740
fil_veltrack=11000
fil_type=lpf_2p
cutoff=120

<region>
sample=Trumpets\trumpets-sus-e3.wav
lokey=e3
hikey=f3
pitch_keycenter=e3


// ------------------------------
// Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra
// ------------------------------
// 1st Violins Sustain
// ------------------------------

<group>
ampeg_attack=0.180
ampeg_vel2attack=-0.180
ampeg_release=0.9

<region>
sample=1st Violins\1st-violins-sus-g3.wav
lokey=g3
hikey=g#3
pitch_keycenter=g3
Thanks!
Jon

Jmcmillan
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Re: Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra

Post by Jmcmillan » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:39 am

So, I removed the velocity tracked LPF and the brass instruments do not have the sudden jump in volume at 120 MIDI velocity. I found this same filter on the contra bassoon, glockenspiel, and xylonphone. All samples are playing well, I think.

I found a post by the creator of Sonatina replying to a question about why he used an LPF with a cutoff of 120Hz on the brass instruments. The questioner thought it would muffle the sound too much and not let the true tone through. The reason he stated for doing so was to try to simulate velocity layers without sampling them. The filer is supposed to open up more with increased velocity (fil_veltrack=11000), providing a simulated velocity layer.

I'm not sure it was working correctly in LYRA so I removed it. Sounds better now, IMO. If I want to put some kind of velocity tracked filter back in, I will use the LYRA parameter adjustment knobs.

Thanks!
Jon
Thanks!
Jon

dblonde
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Re: Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra

Post by dblonde » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:27 pm

Hi John
I am VERY interested in what you did here and would very much like to do the same. Would you be willing to share in detail what you did here to get it working?
Would you share your sfz file with me?

If not, no worries but thought I would ask.

Happy music making :)

Best wishes.

David

Jmcmillan
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Posts: 70
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Re: Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra

Post by Jmcmillan » Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:19 pm

David,
No problem. I will put together more detail tonight or tomorrow night.

Just my background...I'm a keys/piano player having experience on KORG TR and Yamaha MM8 playing in some church bands and other small gigs (in my earlier years), but sold them and took the dive into DAW and soft instruments. I have only an iPad for DAW and soft instrument, but use an old laptop with iFunbox to load new sounds and other files. Having fun so far getting into it! Auria was a good find for me.

Basically I started working on Sonatina because I wanted to try something FREE I could plug into LYRA and use as many instances of instrument as the CPU would handle.

Plan B was to spring for iSymphonic Orchestra with some sound packs, and/or Miroslav Philharmonik 2 in Sample Tank 2.0. But iSymphonic is 16 part multi-tymbral and SampleTank is only 8 part multi-tymbral. So I kept going with Sonatina hoping to get it to work well with LYRA.

I think some of the instruments still need some tweaking (1. French horn solo has a delayed or very slow attack for some reason, 2. concert harp is very loud compared to other sounds, etc.). I know nothing about SFZ programming but I think I'm going to need to learn, or go with Plan B!

Anyway, more detail coming soon!
Jon
Thanks!
Jon

dblonde
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Re: Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra

Post by dblonde » Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:10 am

hey Jon :)
thanks for the reply. No problem with sharing the file, maybe I could take a look at it myself.

Try here for some free stuff thats really great:

https://sites.google.com/site/soundfonts4u/

Perhaps something there will be of interest to you.

Best wishes.

David

Jmcmillan
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Posts: 70
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Re: Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra

Post by Jmcmillan » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:09 am

David,
I'll check out the sound fonts...thanks for the link!

Here is a zip containing all of the SSO SFZ files as I have them in Auria.
Basically I changed the sample folder by replacing "sample=Samples\" with "sample=" to keep the samples one subfolder next to the SFZ file (Auria coding rule, I think).

Next, after playing the brass instruments, the sample would get super loud on exactly 120 MIDI velocity notes. After a lot of google-ing, I found the creator of the SSO use a low pass filter to make fake velocity layers. I don't think the settings he has are working well in LYRA, so I commented them out in the SFZ file by adding "// " in front of the code. I also found these filter in the Basoon, Glockenspeil and Zylophone SFZ files, and did the same filter settings removal.

See below in the <group> section the "// " in front of the 3 lines of filter code.
Also see below the "filter=Samples\" is changed to "filter=". Changed it in each of the <region> areas in all of the SFZ files.

Also, I attached a quick sample of the French Horns sound using Lyra with the standard convolution reverb in Auria.
Thanks!
Jon

// ------------------------------
// Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra
// ------------------------------
// Trombones Staccato
// ------------------------------

<group>
loop_mode=one_shot
seq_position=1
seq_length=2
// fil_veltrack=11000
// fil_type=lpf_2p
// cutoff=120

<region>
sample=Trombones\trombones-stc-rr1-e2.wav
lokey=e2
hikey=f2
pitch_keycenter=e2
Attachments
Star Wars French Horns 2.zip
(596.7 KiB) Downloaded 134 times
sso.zip
(29.14 KiB) Downloaded 148 times
Thanks!
Jon

dblonde
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Re: Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra

Post by dblonde » Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:57 pm

Thanks for the share Jon.

I shall have a play this weekend and let you know how I got on with it :)

Cheers.

David

dblonde
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Re: Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra

Post by dblonde » Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:04 am


Jmcmillan
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Posts: 70
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Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra

Post by Jmcmillan » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:34 am

interesting...have you tried the other two listed (VSCO and virtual playing orchestra)? I'm thinking I will try them soon.
Thanks!
Jon

Jmcmillan
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Posts: 70
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Re: Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra

Post by Jmcmillan » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:00 pm

Well, I think I will give up on SSO. It interesting but I could just pay for Miroslav 2 or iSymphonic. Not sure I want to spend so much time noodling around with sounds fonts. The more google searching I do and reading forums about gathering sound fonts, the more laborious it sounds.

I hope the wavemacine labs team will make more instruments available for Lyra as in app purchases. I would rather spend time making music than designing sounds.
Thanks!
Jon

Jmcmillan
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Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:36 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra

Post by Jmcmillan » Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:39 am

I think all the frustration I was having with getting SFZ libraries to work with LYRA is actually a bug. I posted what I found out in the bug report area of the forum: http://auriaapp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=14952
Thanks!
Jon

Jmcmillan
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Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2016 7:36 am
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Re: Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra [pushed to Bug Report area]

Post by Jmcmillan » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:51 pm

.
Thanks!
Jon

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