Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

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Cpu Red
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Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by Cpu Red » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:10 am

It seems that when editing or quantizing a note (for example: d4) in the midi editor and that note is moved to overlap another d4 note even if only slightly, then the other note is deleted instead of just shortening its length. Is there anyway inside the program to stop this from happening? I hope i have explained my problem sufficiently.

Rim
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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by Rim » Thu Feb 04, 2016 5:57 am

This is intended behavior. In previous versions, the overlapped note would be shortened, but this let to issues with tiny "slivers" of notes being left over after overlaps, so I went with what other desktop DAWs do - delete the overlapped note.

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mschenkel
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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by mschenkel » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:22 am

Rim wrote:This is intended behavior. In previous versions, the overlapped note would be shortened, but this let to issues with tiny "slivers" of notes being left over after overlaps, so I went with what other desktop DAWs do - delete the overlapped note.

Rim
This behavior causes few problems with quantized notes since those are exact to their measure so if you lay down a note event on the same note of the preceding one it deletes it. A workaround coul be, when quantizing, instead of just bar/x=length, something like (bar/x)-1smpl=note length. Am I completely wrong?

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richardyot
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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by richardyot » Thu Feb 04, 2016 11:34 am

I've definitely had some problems with this behaviour: when laying down notes that are consecutive and quantized in the grid, the note just after gets deleted.

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JointSmith
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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by JointSmith » Thu Feb 04, 2016 1:37 pm

This is a big problem for me too.

Was about to create a post but I'm not alone...I cannot record my drum machine anymore. It has sometime overlapping result with fast hats and the midi not off etc... While overlapping could be bad, I don't want Auria to decide for me whether notes should be joined together or not. Please do give the option to turn that off.

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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by Rim » Fri Feb 05, 2016 8:22 am

I have no problem reworking this in a future update, but I'm not exactly sure what the best approach would be. In MIDI, it's not possible to have overlapping notes. The reason is because MIDI has two events for notes - note on and note off. For example:

This works fine:
On Off On Off


But overlapping notes like this will break the MIDI spec and cause some synths to crash, etc:
On On Off Off


In 2.02, I had the editor shorten the note when you overlapped, but this was confusing, because sometimes the shortened note was very small (only a few samples).

Also, moving a note that was overlapping will not restore the note to its original size. This is simply too difficult to accomplish in the current code, because the editor doesn't keep a list of the original sizes, etc.


Rim

rossFen
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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by rossFen » Fri Feb 05, 2016 1:35 pm

In Logic Pro, overlapping notes are each maintained as separate messages. Other notes are not effected when a note is moved to occupy the same space in time, whether it was the result of quantizing or manually. In Gadget on iOS, overlapping notes are possible, and each note sounds independently with no confusion of MIDI note on and off messages. I don’t know how this is achieved in the code.

I don’t want my notes deleted without explicitly choosing for that to happen. So if shortening length (no matter how short) of the overlapped note is the result, I’ll take that over deletion.

BTW, I'm not understanding what "a few samples" means. A MIDI note On message triggers a sound, so it depends on what's being triggered.

Denzkps
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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by Denzkps » Sat Feb 06, 2016 1:04 am

It's a big problem for me too. I sent short video for Rim a week ago. In 2.02 it work normal but now I can't use midi in Auria

Rim
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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by Rim » Sat Feb 06, 2016 5:21 pm

I'll see if I can improve this for 2.04 or 2.05

Rim

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JointSmith
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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by JointSmith » Mon Feb 08, 2016 5:48 pm

Thank you very Much !

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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by Dancore » Tue Feb 09, 2016 6:20 pm

I'm also struggling in my workflow with Auria deleting overlapping notes. It happens a lot while I'm drawing new midi notes in pre-recorded sections, as I'll draw a note between two others, and the resulting note starts out at a length that lands on top of the next midi note and deletes it, unless I specify the note length before drawing, which is time consuming. I also like manually dragging midi notes around a lot when arranging, and this occasionally causes an accidental delete.

(Forgive my programming ignorance but...) Surely when midi notes overlap, Auria could just ignore the one underneath?

You can overlap midi notes in Cubasis and it doesn't cause issues. The same is true in Cubase and in Logic.

Auria is the first DAW I've used with this deleting behaviour (granted, I've only used the ones mentioned here) :-)

Many thanks for your excellent support.

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JointSmith
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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by JointSmith » Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:33 am

I really really hope that you guys will fix that. It has been quite a while now that I'm dealing with it and I really want to emphasize how difficult it became to use the piano roll.
Everytime I want to make a note going full lenght to the next one I HAVE to use no snapping "none" mode because if I hit the right auto length it WILL erase the next one even though it should really not delete it since the length is supposed to end right before. Maybe I'm not clear but this auto delete if overlapped has to be disabled.
Thank you.

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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by Rim » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:48 am

This has been fixed in 2.04, which I'm working on now. I hope to have it in Apple's hands for review in a week or so.

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Cpu Red
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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by Cpu Red » Tue Mar 15, 2016 6:33 pm

How will it work now? I forgot to respond to this thread a while back.

I remember impc pro had a bug where when you would quantize with swing and the notes moved and then move the notes again, little slivers of midi notes would be left behind, sometimes very small one that were hard to see and sometimes ghost notes that were almost impossible to delete. They have since fixed that issue.

I think ghost notes and slivers would be way worse than the notes being outright deleted. I know it is way too late now but i am curious if you could elaborate on the way this works now.

Thanks Rim. Once again, thank you for being such an active developer. I know many of us appreciate the extra effort you put into this app.

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Re: Midi Quantize Deletes Notes

Post by Rim » Wed Mar 16, 2016 6:15 pm

I reverted to the way it worked before (but improved it a bit). So in 2.04, if you overlap another note, it will trim that other note, so both notes will be visible. I agree that supporting full overlaps visually is a great goal, but it would require a pretty major overhaul of the underlying system, and that's going to take some time. At some point in the future, I'll do that when I have some more time, but I think 2.04 is probably better than simply deleting the notes.

Rim

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