Alternative midi-note handling?

For general questions or discussion of Auria.

Moderators: Corey W, Rim

Soundseeker
Expert
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:39 pm

Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by Soundseeker » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:16 am

Hello,

First of all - I love Auria, I love the plugins. It's so great having such a capable DAW on my iPad, but there is one thing, I wish it gets changed/expanded in some future update.

I know, that the midi-editing part of Auria Pro is brand new and so it is normal, that there are some rough edges here and there. But to my eyes, the concept for editing midi-events isn’t optimal.

In normal mode only moving of events is straightforward, in order to get to the event-handles for resizing I have to zoom in that much, that it feels uncomfortable. Having to zoom in and out that often, seems to like a workflow killer.

In paint-mode it is possible to set and reset notes in a simple and straightforward way. But the problem of handling events on a touch-screen device remains, cause often events are simply to small for precise and comfortable editing.

Many people are liking the way, Gadget has realized midi-editing. But Gagdet isn’t a DAW with a traditional timeline, like Auria. It is a pattern-sequencer with a different scope. In Gadget I usually create small patterns with not more than 16 notes at once on the x-axis. Within this limited scope Gadget works well, no doubt. But in a DAW like Auria or Cubasis I except the ability to handle longer melody-parts which consists of more than 16 events in a fast and precise way.

I’m deeply convinced, that integrating event-handlers into midi-events on a small touch-screen device will not lead to an efficient and precise workflow, regardless how clever it has been thought out. On a PC with a mouse, this works well, cause I can do very precise maneuvers with such an input-device and my finger will never block my view onto what happens.

This concept of integrated handles is very intuitive and seems to be the most natural way to interact with events. But it simply doesn’t work out well on a touch-screen, although it seems so. The missing precision of using a finger for complex tasks on a small screen with small events is a problem, which should be dealt with in a special way.

Nanostudio, Beatmaker 2 and MultitrackStudio are offering handles, which are not part of the event itself, but they are separated from it within a special area of the screen. (Under and right of the editor). This introduces a couple of advantages:

- All event handles are always visible and usable. Not only the handles for resizing a note can be displayed but also for the note begin, position and even more if necessary.
- My finger will never obscure my sight on events. With small events on a small grid, this is a huge plus.
- I often edit note-events, while a loop is playing. In this case, I have to see all notes in the loop at once and it would be great, being able to move, resize and transpose events that are very small. In fact the size of events does not affect the precision and speed, I can edit them at all.
- The overall feel is simply precise. No more guessing if I’m on the right event, or handle and if a moved event lands really on this grid-cell or that in front of it. It feels as precise and fast as if I would use a mouse on a PC. This is a great plus.

Perhaps this concept isn’t everybodys cup of tea and it seem not very natural on first sight. But it takes only an hour or two to get used to it and I’m sure, many people would like it.

It would be so great, if sometimes in the future you could implement a third editing-mode with that kind of handles. So everyone can choose what he likes most.

Kind Regards!
Last edited by Soundseeker on Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

Rim
Site Admin
Posts: 7845
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by Rim » Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:46 am

Auria's pianoroll is getting an overhaul in v2.03, with some welcome changes. But in the mean time, Auria already does what you're asking about: there are two boxes at the top of the piano roll. One has a "v" in it, and the other an "l". These boxes allow you to adjust the length or velocity of notes with just a single gesture, regardless of whether you can see the handles. For example. just select a note, then tap inside the length box, and move your finger up and down to adjust the length of the note.

Rim

Soundseeker
Expert
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:39 pm

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by Soundseeker » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:22 am

Thank you for your quick response! I'm already aware of this boxes but I've not gotten used to it enough perhaps. I still think Auria would benefit from external handles, cause they seem to me the most straightforward way solving the touch-screen problematic. On a PC it works very well with a mouse as an external handle. I think that kind of handle buttons would be an adequate substitution for that mouse.

Kind regards!

Rim
Site Admin
Posts: 7845
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by Rim » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:27 am

Those boxes are external handles... Unless I'm missing something.

Rim

Soundseeker
Expert
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:39 pm

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by Soundseeker » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:42 am

Yes - you are right. This boxes are already a form of external handles. So, perhaps I just don't have enough routine with Auria. I'll try to use this boxes more often in the future. Somehow I always forget, they are there.

Soundseeker
Expert
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:39 pm

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by Soundseeker » Sat Jan 02, 2016 8:47 am

Many thanks again, for your quick and friendly response and for pointing out the handle-boxes - and of course a happy new year to you and whoever reads this!

Soundseeker
Expert
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:39 pm

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by Soundseeker » Sun Jan 03, 2016 1:46 am

I’ve used used the boxes somewhat now and they help a lot, dealing with smaller midi-notes. But I think they should be at the bottom, so the hand gets not in the way of sight, while adjusting.

After this it would be only a small step, to lay out the controls in a form like it has been realized in nanostudio, which offers also handles for note position start and key, which gives more flexibility and comfort.

Very small notes are hard to catch and move on the screen and it is very hard to place them correctly within a smaller grid and often the finger gets in the way - so for such actions indirekt handles would be the better option, cause one has to highlight the note only one time and after this using the indirekt handles to adjust the note position/length/size/start/key in a very precise way and the sight is never obscured by the finger. It would make it so much easier to deal with small notes within a small grid.

This would also allow precise editing of larger loops while playing back.

Kind Regards!

dermichl
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:29 am

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by dermichl » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:46 am

i beg to differ! these - Nanostudio - handles severly slow down my workflow! i always had to toggle these handles on and off to see notes at the very end of a bar...

Soundseeker
Expert
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:39 pm

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by Soundseeker » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:02 am

To my taste, the implementation of external handles was quit good in nanostudio and I had the impression that it set some standards workflow wise. But this is a matter of taste, of cause.

The usefulness of external handles on a touchscreen remains. The diameter of the finger-tip is to large for manipulating small items directly in a precise way. In addition to this the finger blocks the sight on that what happens. So I think, separate handles for movement, size, key and optionally note-start would give a large workflow-boost.

dermichl
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:29 am

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by dermichl » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:55 am

i still beg to differ! there are some great apps proving you wrong!

gobo
Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Dec 24, 2015 8:08 am

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by gobo » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:42 am

dermichl wrote:i still beg to differ! there are some great apps proving you wrong!
I follow this with some interest.
Can you elaborate?
What is your method for manipulating small items in Auria?

Rim
Site Admin
Posts: 7845
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by Rim » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:07 am

You guys might want to hold off on discussions until the 2.03 update is available ;) The piano roll is getting some significant changes in 2.03 that will improve workflow quite a bit.

Rim

dermichl
Member
Posts: 16
Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2016 3:29 am

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by dermichl » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:33 pm

Rim wrote:You guys might want to hold off on discussions until the 2.03 update is available ;) The piano roll is getting some significant changes in 2.03 that will improve workflow quite a bit.

Rim
looking forward to that!!! discussion postponed :D

instinctive
Expert
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:02 pm

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by instinctive » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:13 pm

+1 for NanoStudio's MIDI editor.

Soundseeker
Expert
Posts: 21
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2015 12:39 pm

Re: Alternative midi-note handling?

Post by Soundseeker » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:18 pm

The first time I’ve used Nanostudio, i’ve scratched my head somewhat about the way, notes have to be manipulated. I’ve checked back the manual and was somewhat disappointed about it. But this was only for a short time.

For me it is not about Nanostudio, but the concept. A really good concept should be copied, I think. It is an awesome solution to the problem of manipulating items that are smaller than my finger within a grid, that is finer than my finger.

To my eyes it was like the invention of the wheel when it comes to the problem of editing small notes. Can’t think of a better suited method for this task, but perhaps I’m wrong.

I’m looking forward to the update! But perhaps you can take a third editing-mode into consideration, with external handles for all relevant note-properties, Rim. You could try it in a beta for some time and see, if it pays off - but I’m sure it will.

I think Auria opens up completely new possibilities when it comes to music-production on the iPad and I'm so happy about the release! I'm sure it will have a great future - it's already lots of fun and playground and will get only better with time.

Kind regards!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Bing [Bot] and 4 guests