Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

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timmyg
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Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by timmyg » Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:26 am

Firstly i want to mix vocals on a track and once the track is completely mixed I need to master it.

1) Is Old Timer a mix plug-in and Microwarmer a mastering plug-in?

2) If so is Old Timer good for vocal mixing/compression?

3) Lastly, Microwarmer or Pro-L for mastering and why?

mrufino1
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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by mrufino1 » Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:34 pm

Micro warmer is its own thing. It incorporates saturation and compression. Old timer is awesome on anything. Pro-L is a limiter, so you'd use it where you wanted limiting, old timer is more designed for gentle compression and if you push it it's not that transparent. I don't have Pro-L, but typically it would get used on the end product. However, no reason it couldn't be used on tracks if you wanted and liked the result.

For me, micro warmer is almost always on the drum buss, and sometimes I use it on bass, guitars, or the stereo bus as well.

I love old timer on anything, especially when I want to set it quickly and move on, it's pretty tough to make it sound bad.

Hopefully that was helpful.

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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by timmyg » Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:22 am

mrufino1 wrote:Micro warmer is its own thing. It incorporates saturation and compression. Old timer is awesome on anything. Pro-L is a limiter, so you'd use it where you wanted limiting, old timer is more designed for gentle compression and if you push it it's not that transparent. I don't have Pro-L, but typically it would get used on the end product. However, no reason it couldn't be used on tracks if you wanted and liked the result.

For me, micro warmer is almost always on the drum buss, and sometimes I use it on bass, guitars, or the stereo bus as well.

I love old timer on anything, especially when I want to set it quickly and move on, it's pretty tough to make it sound bad.

Hopefully that was helpful.
I realise Pro-L is for mastering and Old Timer is a compressor but still confused over Microwarmer...is it just a different kind of compressor? Think I'll try Old Timer on the vocals and Pro-L for mastering

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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by mrufino1 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:38 am

My point wasn't that one is for mastering and the other is a compressor, you can use either where they are needed. A compressor and limiter are the same thing. However, old timers controls don't really let you set it as a limiter and probably vice versa with pro-L. But a hard knee and greater than 10:1 ratio and you can make any compressor with controls that allow into a limiter. Generally fast attack times too but that's not a rule.

As far as Microwarmer, as I said, it's a combination of saturation and compression. If you your question is "should I buy it?" Then te answer is 100% yes. It's a plugin you can't emulate with another that auria offers. Old timer and pro-L are both great (although I don't own pro-L as I said, but q and c are both great and I assume this isn't any different) but there are compressors and limiters in the channel strip that do a great job. For me, micro warmer is essential. I wish they'd port the full vintage warmer as well, which is a Multiband version.

On Microwarmer, crank the gain a little (maybe 4-6 Db), turn the knee control up, turn the master down to compensate, and you get WICKED compression that can give you instant bonham, etc (of course, you'll need bonham to get that groove, but you know what I mean).

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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by timmyg » Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:46 am

mrufino1 wrote:My point wasn't that one is for mastering and the other is a compressor, you can use either where they are needed. A compressor and limiter are the same thing. However, old timers controls don't really let you set it as a limiter and probably vice versa with pro-L. But a hard knee and greater than 10:1 ratio and you can make any compressor with controls that allow into a limiter. Generally fast attack times too but that's not a rule.

As far as Microwarmer, as I said, it's a combination of saturation and compression. If you your question is "should I buy it?" Then te answer is 100% yes. It's a plugin you can't emulate with another that auria offers. Old timer and pro-L are both great (although I don't own pro-L as I said, but q and c are both great and I assume this isn't any different) but there are compressors and limiters in the channel strip that do a great job. For me, micro warmer is essential. I wish they'd port the full vintage warmer as well, which is a Multiband version.

On Microwarmer, crank the gain a little (maybe 4-6 Db), turn the knee control up, turn the master down to compensate, and you get WICKED compression that can give you instant bonham, etc (of course, you'll need bonham to get that groove, but you know what I mean).
Excellent advice, thanks. Do you think the old timer and/or microwarmer are any good for vocals? Also I've read somewhere here before that people use them on the masterstrip of a song and that it can help glue a mix together?

Any thoughts on these?

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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by mrufino1 » Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:44 pm

Do you own them yet? If yes, try them anywhere to see how they work for you. If not, then I do highly recommend both. If you're not sure psp does have free demo versions for a desktop daw that you could try. Still, HIGHLY recommended.

Good on vocals? Yes for old timer- good on anything. I've used it on the stereo buss before as well, it sounded good there. If I do bus compression though I usually use the channel strip on that is on the buses, likewise with the limiter.

I don't know if ive tried micro warmer on vocals, but I definitely have used it on stereo bus on occasion and it does the "glue" thing well. They are both plugins you'll use a lot.

The two compressors I use most in auria are old timer and chan comp. I use pro c when I remember I have it, but I never seem to reach for it first. I'm not sure why, it's great. But old timer and chan comp (aside from it's non working meter) are very easy to set quickly. I use the built in compressor too, but I love old timer.

The best advice I can give though is really learn how to set a compressor to do what you want and understand why you're compressing something. Then different "flavors " make more sense. If I had to do a mix with just the channel strips though I could do it, they sound good and offer plenty of control.

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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by timmyg » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:04 am

mrufino1 wrote:

On Microwarmer, crank the gain a little (maybe 4-6 Db), turn the knee control up, turn the master down to compensate, and you get WICKED compression that can give you instant bonham, etc (of course, you'll need bonham to get that groove, but you know what I mean).
Can't wait to try them...I'm going to get them both as they sound & look fantastic on youtube too.

When you say turn down the master to compensate you mean the master fader in Auria not a master in the plug-in right?
I always try to leave my master fader at zero...maybe I heard this wrong?

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richardyot
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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by richardyot » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:45 am

For vocals I think Old Timer is quite a bit smoother sounding than MicroWarmer IMO. Of the two I prefer Old Timer, but that's probably a personal thing and I might well change my mind six months down the line :)

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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by mrufino1 » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:35 am

If you turn up the gain control in micro warmer, turn down the master in micro warmer. I wasn't too clear on that. As for turning the master fader of auria down, that doesn't matter in digital really, but if you pay attention to your gain structure you shouldn't have to do that.

And yes, you'd expect that old timer would be smoother than vintage warmer, that's the intention. Smooth is absolutely the opposite of vintage warmer. I never thought of these two plugins in that way, but it makes sense when you say it like that, and old timer is absolutely smooth.

No matter what though, they're both great.

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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by timmyg » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:13 am

What would your typical setup chain be when using MicroWarmer?

What I mean is, would you place it on the FX of the Master Channel (stereo bus) then bounce down the mix before mastering in a separate project (I'll probably be using Pro-L). Or would you bounce without Microwarmer, open a new project and then insert MicroWarmer followed by Pro-L to the new projects Master Channel?

Thanks again, just want to get the set up & order right!

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richardyot
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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by richardyot » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:25 am

You don't really need to bounce down for mastering into a separate project, just use the inserts on the Master Strip. It's much simpler if you can keep everything in one project, otherwise you will have to constantly go back-and-forth to adjust things.

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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by timmyg » Thu Feb 05, 2015 8:52 am

richardyot wrote:You don't really need to bounce down for mastering into a separate project, just use the inserts on the Master Strip. It's much simpler if you can keep everything in one project, otherwise you will have to constantly go back-and-forth to adjust things.
Yes I was thinking it would be simpler in one project as long as processing power is ok. Some of my projects have a lot going on as I'm sure yours do!

So this way I'd need to insert MicroWarmer followed by Pro-L on the Master Strip...does the order matter?

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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by richardyot » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:30 am

timmyg wrote: So this way I'd need to insert MicroWarmer followed by Pro-L on the Master Strip...does the order matter?
You might not need both, Microwarmer is a limiter. But if you do use both then I would say yes, the order you use them in is likely to change the sound. Also if you are going to use Microwarmer on the Master then go really easy with the saturation, don't turn that speed dial too far to the left.

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eustressor
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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by eustressor » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:47 pm

@timmyg I recently used a touch of MicroWarmer followed by Pro-L on the master strip for mastering purposes and was very happy with the results. As mrufino1 and richardyot have mentioned, MicroWarmer combines compression with saturation, and a little saturation before hitting your Limiter can go a long way. It really helps transients like drum hits come alive.

If you A/B your mix with MicroWarmer off then on, you'll really start to get a feel for what it can do. Aside from that, you're already tapping into a very helpful resource by asking the experts on this forum.

Wish I could add more to the OldTimer discussion. It is drop dead easy to use and I used it on a vocal buss a few months back and was quite pleased with it's compression in that capacity.
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Re: Old Timer vs MicroWarmer vs Pro-L

Post by timmyg » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:06 am

Thanks guys that's awesome feedback...as usual.

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