How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

For general questions or discussion of Auria.

Moderators: Corey W, Rim

Post Reply
Geronimo
Expert
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:32 am

How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Geronimo » Sat Aug 10, 2013 4:57 am

I'm straight copying a thread that i've made over at gearslutz. But i'm asking it here again because you guys should know best what the effects are capable of. And to be quite honest, the classicverb pro doesn't perfom incredibly well whenever i try to get something nice out of it. I always find myself to load up the convo reverb instead, although i can't manipulate it as much.

"I'm trying to create some smooth deep reverb sounds for special effects, that sound like it's really deep in space. I know it's hard to describe, but you have an idea what i'm looking for. Two examples:

You can hear that deep percussion sound at 0:14, 0:19, 0:26 and 0:32 and especially at 0:40 and 0:44 (these are the most important) here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VAHgVWBu0U

or at about 0:19 and 0:24 here:

youtube.com/watch?v=HHcHYisZFLU

Right now i'm experimenting what all kinds of tools to get the sound that i'm looking for, but i'm not quite there yet. I'm mainly using the convo reverb because i got a huge variation of rooms there, and the quality is mostly really nice to begin with. But somehow i'm not able to get it sound deep enough, the tail just keeps sounding like it has been a room at some point, no matter how big the hall is to start with, no matter how i eq or manipulate it.

Maybe it lies in the nature of IR files in general? Or am i just not experienced enough to get the sound out of them that i want?

I know that i can't just get pro hollywood sound without adequate tools, but i should be able to get a little closer though.

Any input is appreciated."

Here's the thread that's been most helpful so far::

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/electron ... everb.html

So, what do you think, would the Morevox Hybrid or MSP IRs help me a bit further here?

Again, any input is helpful.

Rim
Site Admin
Posts: 7900
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:08 pm

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Rim » Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:09 am

That "out in space" sound is usually just a combination of a large hall and the mix control being set so there's very little dry signal coming through. Maybe others have more detailed ideas?

Rim

Geronimo
Expert
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:32 am

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Geronimo » Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:57 am

Rim wrote:That "out in space" sound is usually just a combination of a large hall and the mix control being set so there's very little dry signal coming through. Maybe others have more detailed ideas?

Rim
I've been working on it for over a week now. The tail of a large hall just hasn't the right dynamics for it. I've tried all of the large retroverb I rooms as well. The offset helps a bit, but it's still too static to emulate the (right kind) of absorption. Maybe i got some more luck with the Hybrid or MSP packages?

actualproof
Expert
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:19 am

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by actualproof » Sat Aug 10, 2013 7:46 am

Lets think outside the box here. Use a large hall, and take all the dry out. Then, place a monitor in your shower and the place a mic 4-5 feet above it and another mic outside of the shower. Play the 'verbed track out of the monitors, and simultaneously record both mics just below feedback level (with both mics active in the monitoring). You can let it resonate for hours like this. Good luck!

Phil999
Expert
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:37 pm

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Phil999 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:16 am

I believe there are no restrictions with a convolution reverb. I haven't tried it out yet, but with a long tailed reverb IR it should be possible. With the standard Cubase convolution reverb I've also done amp, EQ, and tape simulations, no problem at all. I don't see a reason why this shouldn't be possible with the Auria convolution reverb.

Geronimo
Expert
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:32 am

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Geronimo » Sat Aug 10, 2013 9:29 am

Phil999 wrote:I believe there are no restrictions with a convolution reverb. I haven't tried it out yet, but with a long tailed reverb IR it should be possible. With the standard Cubase convolution reverb I've also done amp, EQ, and tape simulations, no problem at all. I don't see a reason why this shouldn't be possible with the Auria convolution reverb.
Have you listened to the samples? Of course these are high end studio effects, but with some effort i should be able to get a little closer though. A normal large convolution reverb and some eqing doesn't cut it though...

Actually the thread over at gearslutz revealed that in high end special effects reverbs there a lot of evolving modulations going on within the decay of the tail. And that's most certainly why the normal IR rooms sound way too static and not deep enough for my liking.

Jus
Expert
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:34 am

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Jus » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:53 pm

Have you tried PianoVerb wide open sounds really nice I actually use PianoVerb loads on Guitar as well
Just tried Nave into PV sounds spacey to me 8)

Phil999
Expert
Posts: 216
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 4:37 pm

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Phil999 » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:03 pm

Geronimo wrote:Have you listened to the samples?
to be honest, no. But if it's a special reverb effect with modulation, it may be the case that you have to use special software for this which I don't know, or re-record reverb tails several times.

By the way, you can create your own IR's with the resulting effect, and apply it with that single IR. Not with Auria, but there are free tools for this. Just a suggestion.

Using Auria alone, I would try to layer several recorded reverb tails, and mix them for that special effect. I have no doubt this will sound interesting, and maybe comes close to the desired effect. And, it's always good to experiment and find something that hasn't existed yet. Such experiments can sound even better than what others have done.

Edit: I just read about the Piano Reverb from the post above. I don't have it, but heard good things about it. That may be a good additional effect source for the in-Auria-reverb mix.

Jus
Expert
Posts: 424
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:34 am

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Jus » Sat Aug 10, 2013 3:33 pm

Just done a quickly first link without PIanoVerb second with , same clip Sunrizer app used 8)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j4khnbbgwb1ti ... erb%20.mp3

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6iq2adlevfo7f ... noVerb.mp3

Then just added a little Flanger via overloud on the third

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2364od591gsc ... langer.mp3

User avatar
Anthony Alves
Expert
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:52 am

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Anthony Alves » Sat Aug 10, 2013 8:35 pm

Hi Geronimo. I think I might have created the theatrical boom your looking for , or at least close, using only Auria and it's plugins. If you like the effect than I can describe how I created it and what plugins I used. This was NOT a sample, I simply layered 3 kick drum hits together with no FX then added the FX plugins. I didn't even use any eq yet so the tone and dynamics can still be sculptured some more.
Here is the Soundcloud link
https://soundcloud.com/anthony-alves/th ... om-created
Cheers~~_/)~~~

syrupcore
Expert
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 8:08 pm

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by syrupcore » Sun Aug 11, 2013 1:13 am

You might want to check out the aufx:space app. It does some nice endlessy reverbs. You can run it as an effect in audiobus. Not sure if you can copy a sound into though.

Geronimo
Expert
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:32 am

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Geronimo » Sun Aug 11, 2013 9:44 am

Jus wrote:Just done a quickly first link without PIanoVerb second with , same clip Sunrizer app used 8)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j4khnbbgwb1ti ... erb%20.mp3

https://www.dropbox.com/s/6iq2adlevfo7f ... noVerb.mp3

Then just added a little Flanger via overloud on the third

https://www.dropbox.com/s/v2364od591gsc ... langer.mp3
Thx for the effort, i really appreciate it. While it does indeed sound spacy now, it isn't quite the sound that i'm looking for. If you have a listen to the sample, the reverb there works on a much deeper level. It's almost as if you can't hear the tail itself at all, but it's definitely there, and creates a very rich, deep and clean ambience. It's a complicated matter. Thx again though, it really helps to get closer.

Geronimo
Expert
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:32 am

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Geronimo » Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:07 am

Anthony Alves wrote:Hi Geronimo. I think I might have created the theatrical boom your looking for , or at least close, using only Auria and it's plugins. If you like the effect than I can describe how I created it and what plugins I used. This was NOT a sample, I simply layered 3 kick drum hits together with no FX then added the FX plugins. I didn't even use any eq yet so the tone and dynamics can still be sculptured some more.
Here is the Soundcloud link
https://soundcloud.com/anthony-alves/th ... om-created
Cheers~~_/)~~~
This definitely sounds rather nice, but imo the tail kinda reveals where it's coming from. It's very hard to describe though. Like i tried to explain in the post above, if you listen to the sample you may find that the reverb there is so transparent that you can't actually hear reflections or feedback of the room itself. Well you certainly do, because that's what creates the sound in the first place, but it works in such a deep yet subtle way, that it will be really hard to recreate without manipulating the tail in more profound ways, if at all.

I think the main difficulty for me lies in the fact that i would like to recreate high end hollywood studio effects with, more or less, standard plug-ins. I'm totally aware that this isn't really possible, but to a certain degree it should be doable though. It's at least a challenge and will lead to a deeper understanding of it all. So it's definitely worth a try.

For a better understanding, try to listen to the sample for a bit, if you got the time and the muse, and see/hear what i've been trying to say about the sound. But as stated in another thread, these sounds were most likely recorded on a soundstage by professionals and have been going through a high end effect chain. I can't create something like that totally ITB (in the box). And even less without all the expertise that professional sound designers got.

Thx for helping me on my quest though :D

User avatar
Anthony Alves
Expert
Posts: 1207
Joined: Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:52 am

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Anthony Alves » Sun Aug 11, 2013 12:15 pm

I actually did listen to the samples for quite a while. I notice the FX in those sections you pointed out and they are timbered by the original hit. Reverb has no sound until its triggered by something and that timbre will decide the tail and sound of that tail. A high sound in frequency will not produce a long decay but a strike from a timpani will. My layered kicks produced the tone of my tail. So it depends on what your original sound is. I hear the tails in those hits and they are so obvious that you notice them and want to reproduce them. In fact it is that sound that makes this trailer. So imho they are very noticeable. We notice higher frequencies so eq ing that out makes the sound less noticeable but still there. It is also known that theatre trailer producers create these tracks with mostly pro samples that you can purchase and load into your daw like Auria. Sample creators often spend months on perfecting the sample and that may encompass a lot of different approaches much like the one suggested that you rerecord the sound in a large room and continue to do this till the tail is how you want it. I personally layered 9 different plugins to recreate the sound of which only 3 were reverbs and I could have kept going. If I had used eq I could have made the tail more transparent but I am only going to spend so much time on a question that requires experimentation and you should also experiment but I felt it would get you closer. Good luck and were here to help as much as we can but we certainly dont have all the answers. hope this helped in some way.

Geronimo
Expert
Posts: 296
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:32 am

Re: How to get a real deep reverb out of Aurias plug ins?

Post by Geronimo » Mon Aug 12, 2013 1:07 pm

Anthony Alves wrote:I actually did listen to the samples for quite a while. I notice the FX in those sections you pointed out and they are timbered by the original hit. Reverb has no sound until its triggered by something and that timbre will decide the tail and sound of that tail. A high sound in frequency will not produce a long decay but a strike from a timpani will. My layered kicks produced the tone of my tail. So it depends on what your original sound is. I hear the tails in those hits and they are so obvious that you notice them and want to reproduce them. In fact it is that sound that makes this trailer. So imho they are very noticeable. We notice higher frequencies so eq ing that out makes the sound less noticeable but still there. It is also known that theatre trailer producers create these tracks with mostly pro samples that you can purchase and load into your daw like Auria. Sample creators often spend months on perfecting the sample and that may encompass a lot of different approaches much like the one suggested that you rerecord the sound in a large room and continue to do this till the tail is how you want it. I personally layered 9 different plugins to recreate the sound of which only 3 were reverbs and I could have kept going. If I had used eq I could have made the tail more transparent but I am only going to spend so much time on a question that requires experimentation and you should also experiment but I felt it would get you closer. Good luck and were here to help as much as we can but we certainly dont have all the answers. hope this helped in some way.
Definitely. Sadly i can't experiment that freely right now, because i can only run three or four plug-ins at once. Bojncing and rebouncing is surely an option, but makes it rather hard to go back when i want to change something on the source sound. Anyway, limitations are a good teacher, as frustrating as they can be.

By the way, Soundcloud runs incredibly slow with Safari on the iPad. All the other browsers don't have that problem. Weird.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 4 guests