Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

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instinctive
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Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by instinctive » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:13 am

Hi,

I'm just wondering: When MIDI is added to Auria and the iPad 4000 is out, will it be possible to use Auria just like a regular Desktop DAW with virtual instruments, i.e., open Auria + 4 synth apps, route them all through Audiobus -> Auria's mixer in real time, use Auria's effects, and then NOT (!) record the resulting audio, but just record MIDI and continue working LIVE with the instruments, so that if you change a MIDI note in Auria, you don't have to re-record etc.? In other words, a normal Desktop DAW workflow.

That would be the absolute uber-killer, needless to say :)

ChrisG
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Re: Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by ChrisG » Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:47 am

Down the road I'm sure. Auria with Rim & Co are the ones pushing things forward on iOS after all. 8)

Adding virtual/VSTis instruments do add other challenges tho, like input interface. Auria would need a "universal" really flexible keyboard and "ribbon keyboard" with scales etc to interface with internal synths. Unless external midi keyboard would be the only option. But then you lose the portability and all that. Anyway, gonna be interesting to see how things look a year or two from now. :)

Edit: Oh I thought you were speaking of Auria having the ability to add internal VST synths.

instinctive
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Re: Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by instinctive » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:01 am

Nah, just the ability to use several external Apps live, throughout a session, through Auria's mixer and effects (as if they were regular "internal" audio tracks) so you don't ever lose the ability to edit the MIDI data and don't have to "re-freeze" (aka re-record) them...

(Next time I'll try to be more precise :))

Rim
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Re: Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by Rim » Mon Feb 11, 2013 6:52 am

You don't need Audiobus to do strictly midi. Audiobus is only used for routing audio. Yes, our plans for midi do include virtual instruments.

RIm

instinctive
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Re: Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by instinctive » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:15 am

OK uhm, it seems like no matter how extensively I explain something, people never understand me. I REALLY need to work on my expression skills!!! 8)

Again, my normal workflow, using virtual instrmuents, in a normal DAW is like this:

- Add MIDI track
- Add Virtual Instrument
- Route MIDI track to Virtual Instrument (it already has an audio track created and assigned automatically)
- Record, tweak and play away on the MIDI track
- If 5 hours later, I decide to change a note, I simply change it and do NOT NEED TO RE-RECORD ANYTHING, as the Virtual Instrument is always begin fed metadata live from the MIDI channel and feeds its audiodata into the audio channel. There is no audio recorded and no need to.

My question is if this will be possible with Auria in the following setup:

- Add Auria MIDI track
- Start Sunrizer app
- Route MIDI track to Sunrizer
- Route Audio from Sunrizer through AudioBus to Auria
- Add effects in Auria's corresponding Audiobus channel
- Record, tweak and play away on the MIDI track
- etc.

- Repeat for more apps

So in the end, I have a setup with Auria, Audiobus, 5 synth apps, 5 Audio channels being fed live from Audiobus in Auria, 5 MIDI channels in Auria that control the 5 synth apps, and NO NEED TO EVER RECORD ANYTHING.

Sorry heh. I'm just no master at explaining complicated stuff.

Rim
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Re: Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by Rim » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:23 am

Not a problem, thanks for the clarification ;) Yes, this should be possible in theory once midi arrives in Auria.

Rim

instinctive
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Re: Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by instinctive » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:27 am

That's great! Obviously, that would require a lot of processing power, but it's nice to know that the AudioBus framework supports it...

Rim
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Re: Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by Rim » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:35 am

Actually, it would have nothing to do with the audiobus framework, as that only handles audio. Any app that supports virtual midi will just listen for midi alongside audiobus, so the two should be able to co-exist just fine.

Rim

instinctive
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Re: Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by instinctive » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:44 am

OK Rim, I was just thinking that for some twisted reason, Auria would not be able to use several AudioBus audio inputs at once at all times, but now that I think about it, that's nonsense.

Thanks as always for the great and quick support.

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Re: Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by Rim » Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:59 am

Not a problem!

Rim

louparte
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Re: Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by louparte » Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:17 am

Rim wrote:You don't need Audiobus to do strictly midi. Audiobus is only used for routing audio. Yes, our plans for midi do include virtual instruments.

RIm
Well think about this please. If you are going this route - allow the user to choose the MIDI map at start-up. And that means Auria should include a lot of MIDI hardware maps. DO NOT ASSUME we all want to map to Auria's virtual instruments. I don't and I probably never will want to do that.

I'm dubious about Auria including MIDI. I really don't need it. I can sequence MIDI mixes elsewhere, on my workstation
or in SONAR or in old Voyetra. And then I can simply record the whole mix w/Auria. That takes care of any metronome issues too.

BTW, my Alesis ioDock does MIDI flawlessly. That's another reason I don't need Auria for MIDI. If I want to play an iPad synth app, like Animoog or Korg iMS20, I can use my hardware controllers through the ioDock & record the audio in Auria, SONAR or even Soundforge. It's beautiful.

MIDI is easy. I have been sequencing MIDI from the beginning of its existence. Unfortunately, I think the virtual synth revolution
has made MIDI needlessly complicated. It introduced latency and CPU issues too.

I don't have those because I use hardware. It's easy. But that means I need a DAW that maps to my hardware. I already have two. And BTW, I often get CPU overload messages now in Auria on my 64G iPad 2. How much CPU are these virtual synths going to eat up?

ChrisG
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Re: Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by ChrisG » Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:16 am

louparte wrote:
Rim wrote:You don't need Audiobus to do strictly midi. Audiobus is only used for routing audio. Yes, our plans for midi do include virtual instruments.

RIm
Well think about this please. If you are going this route - allow the user to choose the MIDI map at start-up. And that means Auria should include a lot of MIDI hardware maps. DO NOT ASSUME we all want to map to Auria's virtual instruments. I don't and I probably never will want to do that.

I'm dubious about Auria including MIDI. I really don't need it. I can sequence MIDI mixes elsewhere, on my workstation
or in SONAR or in old Voyetra. And then I can simply record the whole mix w/Auria. That takes care of any metronome issues too.

BTW, my Alesis ioDock does MIDI flawlessly. That's another reason I don't need Auria for MIDI. If I want to play an iPad synth app, like Animoog or Korg iMS20, I can use my hardware controllers through the ioDock & record the audio in Auria, SONAR or even Soundforge. It's beautiful.

MIDI is easy. I have been sequencing MIDI from the beginning of its existence. Unfortunately, I think the virtual synth revolution
has made MIDI needlessly complicated. It introduced latency and CPU issues too.

I don't have those because I use hardware. It's easy. But that means I need a DAW that maps to my hardware. I already have two. And BTW, I often get CPU overload messages now in Auria on my 64G iPad 2. How much CPU are these virtual synths going to eat up?
1. How much CPU will the VIs use? None. Unless you use them.

2. My iPad 2 often gets CPU overload too. But that's simply because *I* am overloading it with plugins and so on. If you are overloading your iPad, use the freeze function, look at what effectss you might change around to maximize the usage without overloading your iPad. Also check your settings (are you running in 32 or 64 bit mode for example). The amount of NAND flash storage (64 in your case) doesn't have anything to do with how much CPU Auria consumes.

3. VSTi's (or whatever you wanna call em) are obviously first priority, not gazillions external gear mappings. But I'm guessing you'll be able to use Auria as any DAW, sequencing your hardware via MIDI.

4. Software synths doesn't have any more latency then "hardware" synths. Depending on the setup of course..

louparte
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Re: Future Auria + MIDI + AudioBus = Virtual Instruments?

Post by louparte » Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:32 am

On #4, that may be true. I'm going to research it a bit.

Patches on hardware synths do not tax the CPU though. They are outside the CPU.
A software synth by design, must use CPU. I don't know how much yours will use.

But you're correct. I'm not going to be using Auria for MIDI anyway.
But I hope the designers think very carefully about the mapping choices.

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