AU MIDI processors

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Klownshed
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AU MIDI processors

Post by Klownshed » Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:21 am

If I put a midi processor in the channel strip, the midi from that track is muted. So, for example, if I have recorded a midi part into the timeline then put ‘StepBud’ in the channel strip to just modulate a CC value assigned to say filter cutoff, nothing sounds. The midi from the timeline is ignored.

If I put MIDi Spy in the channel strip nothing is coming into it at all, even if it’s the only thing in the channel strip.

Am I missing a MIDI thru setting somewhere?

Or is there a better way to do this?

I did try sending midi from one channel to another But couldn’t get that working either as all AU MIDI processors seem to not be getting any Midi in.

Espiegel123
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Re: AU MIDI processors

Post by Espiegel123 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:02 am

I think the signal flow is that if you have MIDI on the track and a MIDI processor on the track, the MIDI processor gets the MIDI from the track and it is up to the AU itself whether it passes its MIDI output back out. For some AU, there is a a "thru" button that appears in the title bar of the AU interface window, but I think that actually only appears when Auria Pro detects an ambiguity in how the AU advertises its abilities.

You can send the MIDI from one track to another. For example, I just recorded notes on Track 1 (which has a Lyra piano assigned). I set up track 2 with Rozeta Arpeggiator on it and Lyra as the instrument. In track 1's setup window, I set the output to go to track 2. When I hit play, the MIDI notes from track 1 get sent to track 2 and trigger the arpeggiator.

It might be that if you want to merge notes and the output of stepbud that you would have to set up a third track that receives the output from Track 1 (original notes) and Track 2 (added stepbud CC).

Klownshed
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Re: AU MIDI processors

Post by Klownshed » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:08 am

Espiegel123 wrote:
Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:02 am
I think the signal flow is that if you have MIDI on the track and a MIDI processor on the track, the MIDI processor gets the MIDI from the track and it is up to the AU itself whether it passes its MIDI output back out. For some AU, there is a a "thru" button that appears in the title bar of the AU interface window, but I think that actually only appears when Auria Pro detects an ambiguity in how the AU advertises its abilities.

You can send the MIDI from one track to another. For example, I just recorded notes on Track 1 (which has a Lyra piano assigned). I set up track 2 with Rozeta Arpeggiator on it and Lyra as the instrument. In track 1's setup window, I set the output to go to track 2. When I hit play, the MIDI notes from track 1 get sent to track 2 and trigger the arpeggiator.

It might be that if you want to merge notes and the output of stepbud that you would have to set up a third track that receives the output from Track 1 (original notes) and Track 2 (added stepbud CC).

You’d think that would be the case but if you put an AU MIDI processor in the channel strip it gets no input.

Even putting a midi monitor in the channel strip results in the midi from the track being muted. I can’t route midi from another track into a track with a MIDI AU processor either.

Perhaps it’s a bug.

I’ve tried the exact same thing with AUM and it works as it should. I set up a chain that goes Rozeta Cells to a StepBud or three to MIDISpy all playing an instance of Lorentz and it all worked. The quantised controller steps make some really cool gated effects.

I’d like to recreate this in AuriaPro and ideally bd able to record the resulting MIDI.

Btw The Rozeta plugins declare themselves as ‘standard’ AU not as MIDI processors. I will try them later swapping out stepbud for an LFO mapped to the same CC and see if that works. I’ve a feeling the issue is just with MIDI AU Processors not standard AUs.

Espiegel123
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Re: AU MIDI processors

Post by Espiegel123 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:55 am

If would probably be helpful to do a screen capture video of how it works in AUM and what happens in AP and post it here (via YouTube) so that RIM and Corey see.

Klownshed
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Re: AU MIDI processors

Post by Klownshed » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:53 am

Sorry, I don't have time to make and upload videos to youtube. But It's a very easily reproducible issue.

Just put some midi in a track, add an AU MIDI processor (not a standard AU with MIDI) to the channel strip and the track will no longer make any sounds.

And for StepBud:

Add a MIDI track with a FabFilter 2 as the instrument. Record some MIDI into the track. MIDI learn any controller, say filter cut-off, to respond to CC15.

Put a StepBud into the channel strip. Turn off all the notes (double tap the step numbers and deselect the notes from the keyboard). Go into MIDI settings and add CC15 to the list of controllers. Tap the CC15 button in the main window and draw in some values into the steps.

If it works you should hear the filter make a sample and hold type sound. I don't hear anything as *any* MIDI AU Processor in the channel strip results in the track being silent.

Now bypass the StepBud instance in the channel strip. You should hear the synth again.

Now swap StepBud for a Rozeta LFO. As default this will have a CC15 assigned. You should now hear the filter sweep. This works for me. Rozeta plug-ins declare themselves as standard Aus, not AU MIDI Processors.

Now swap StepBud for MIDISPY (another AU MIDI Processor). Silence again. and midi spy just monitors, it obviously isn't generating any MIDI.

Another thing to try...

Record the aforementioned StepBud CC15 steps into an auria pro track, using whichever routing system you can get to work. Do you get the same values from stepBud into Auria? I don't. If I get anything at all, the values of CC15 are all set to 0. And also, the timing is way off the rate set in StepBud and none of the steps is aligned the grid, they are all are off by a fair (seemingly jittery) margin.

One last thing...

Put a stepBud into the channel strip of an AU instrument (or internal synth/lyra) and this time just use StepBud to play some notes. This should work. Sort of. Keep changing patches and soon you will see that way too many note-ons are being sent and things go weird. It sounds OK if you use the default Lyra Piano though. Try again with the FabFilter synths and things will soon sound wrong.

Then try and record the MIDI output from stepbud. Is it in time, aligned to the grid? Did the first note get recorded?

FWIW, I've had no luck with StepBud in NanoStudio 2 either, it's also firing off way too many note ons.

StepBud seems to work correctly with AUM, I've not encountered any issues with this combination.

Espiegel123
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Re: AU MIDI processors

Post by Espiegel123 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:22 pm

While it might make sense to have Thru be an option on AU Midi processors, you can accomplish your current goal with an indirect method.

I just checked. If you try what I suggested up-thread, you can accomplish what you are trying to do.

If you want StepBud to send controllers to affect a synth whose notes are coming from recorded MIDI, you have to do something like the following:

1) Record your MIDI notes on a track (let's say track 1).Don't assign a synth to the track.
2) Create another MIDI track to host StepBud (let's say track 2)
3) Create a track (audio or MIDI) to host the synth that you want to receive. Let's call it track 3
4) Set Track to send its MIDI output to track 3.
5) Set track 2 to send its MIDI to track 3

You now have your synth being affected as you'd like.

I am not sure that one can say that AUM handles this differently because the architecture is different. AUM doesn't have the MIDI recording at the top of a channel. If you have a synth at the top of a channel and are sending to it from multiple sources, you are essentially doing what I've outlined above.

It kind of seems to me that the AU itself is the one that should be responsible for thru-ing or not. Just as AU fx need to have a dry/wet mix -- you wouldn't want AUM (for instance) to THRU audio through an Audio Unit effect.

Klownshed
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Re: AU MIDI processors

Post by Klownshed » Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:40 am

Thanks. I had tried something similar with the routing. That’s how I recorded the StepBud generated CC but as I mentioned above recording stepbud cc doesn’t work. All values get recorded as 0.

But can you explain why a midi monitor should mute a track?

That shouldn’t happen. Neither MIDISPy not mfx monitor work properly In auria pro. So I have a 0% success rate with AU MIDI Processors in auria pro.

I think there is definitely an issue in the way AU MIDI Processors are handled in AP.

Klownshed
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Re: AU MIDI processors

Post by Klownshed » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:48 am

It's not too much of an issue. I can draw in the CC data directly.

I was trying to use StepBud as it's less friction; you can very quickly draw in values and change timings, etc. in a quick and creative way. I find drawing the CC data in the MIDI editor quite fiddly but at least it's doable. And once it's done at least you can copy and paste.

In an ideal world the CC data would be easier to draw in Auria Pro, I'd love to see something like Logic's AKA Hyper Draw (like stepBud!) directly in the midi editor.

BUT; I do think there's an issue with AU MIDI processors. Not just with Auria, but with a lot of apps. It's obviously early days for this but hopefully things will settle down as the various developers get to grips with the situation.

Espiegel123
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Re: AU MIDI processors

Post by Espiegel123 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 9:33 am

It is probably worth posting to the Bug Reports topic about the presence of an AU MIDI plugin killing the track and the need for a thru -- even if current behavior is to spec. This does seem like something that could be of importance -- and there are so many AU use-cases and plug-in variations that feedback probably will help RIM get things tuned to what is out there.

I think he is gearing up for another round of development. So, bringing up concerns now is probably a good idea.

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